DreadBall - The Futuristic Sports Game

[Shteve0]

My decision to buy a whole load of Judwan to double as a dreadball team and a Slann team for BB is looking better by the minute

[Smeborg]

Just to be clear: you do know that for a Sucker Punch to be called, you have to start in the player's front arc and then Slam him from the back?

If you start in the back arc, it's just a Slam (and a particularly effective one at that, especially against Forge Fathers).

Thanks, javascrybe, missed that, another rule I conceived wrongly on my long car journey (although I have been playing it correctly at the table). When trying to clear the main Strke zone of a Judwan infestation, you typically will want to push a player from a certain direction, his facing may be such that you can't do so without spending an extra action [to avoid a foul]. With a Feint action (Misdirect) you don't need to consider facing, thus you have greater economy (potentially 1 action instead of 2).

All the best,

[Smeborg]

My decision to buy a whole load of Judwan to double as a dreadball team and a Slann team for BB is looking better by the minute

Well, it's only me playing against myself so far, so my assessment of the Judwan may be wrong, but their superiority over the other teams does seem extreme.

Perhaps as teams advance and get skills (especially Stremgth 3+, Lucky/Really Lucky and Does this Hurt) the quantum of damage will influence proceedings, but unless I have missed something, the Judwan will improve their defensive skills by at least as much (Can't Feel a Thing, Duck & Weave, Lucky/Really Lucky, Grizzled) or more.

I guess it will take a couple of years for the community to get a grip on the Judwan. If they are generally perceived to be "broken" in a couple of years time, then there are easy ways to nerf them, such as reducing their speed from 6 to 5, or taking away their racial ability giving +1 to Feints. But the whole process might take 3-5 years if done properly, so I am not holding my breath.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

I am continuing the I.V. League experiment, albeit at a slower pace, as I am keen to understand team development better.

The Girls just thrashed the Orcs, the Judwan thrashed the Bugs. Both landslide wins.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

STANDINGS AFTER 20 MATCHES (5 matches per team):

1, Judwan 14 (+31) 204
2. Bots 9 (+16) 158
3. FF 8 (+6)
4. Girls 8 (+4) 143
5. Boys 7 (-2) 155
6. V-M 6 (-14) 168
7. Bugs 6 (-15) 160
8. Orx 2 (-26) 132

Not much to add to previous comments. The most interesting match of the round was a brutal encounter between the FF and the Bots. Won narrowly by the Bots, but could have gone either way. 2 dead FF players (3 in 2 matches), 4 other players (2 FF, 2 Bots) injured for 3 turns.

Bots and Girls have yet to play the Judwan, so will likely go down a bit in the standings, FF and Boys have yet to play Orx, so will likely go up.

[Smeborg]

BrenMed's Cryorevision comes to the rescue...

The Forge Fathers are squishy, and the last match saw them finally go squish in spades (a dead Guard and a dead Striker, both with skill advances). Out of money after paying the full price in the previous round to revivify the same Striker, they could only take their chances with the el cheapo revivification table.

The Striker lost Strength (from 3+ to 4+). Since he never uses Strength, this is equivalent to a clean bill of health. The Guard lost a random ability (he had 3: Steady, which he starts with, +Speed and +Skill). He lost +Skill, which again, he will never use (unless he becomes a Keeper, but he will avoid that table), so he also has a clean bill of health.

[Edit: I made a mistake here, +St and +Sp are not abilities, hence the FF Guard must lose "Steady", something of a capital offense for his type.]

[Smeborg]

JACK PROGRESSION IS HARD. So is progression for 4+ skill Guards. Ignoring the special cases of Judwan and Bots, the other 6 teams show:

Guards: 33 experience points gained (only 2 of them on Guards with 4+ Strength)
Jacks: 7 exp.
Strikers: 25 exp.

If we look at skill advances, it is even more extreme:

Guards: 9 advances
Jacks: 1 advance (FF)
Strikers: 7 advances

The Gobbos will eventually get there, but at the moment have 3 players with 1 experience point each. They are the only Jacks with Speed of 3+.

Jacks have the best skill advance table, but it looks like they hardly get to roll on it! A well developed Jack is a potential game-breaker, I suspect, because of the possibility of Running Interferrence. At the beginning, only the FF have Strength of 3+, and they need a card to RI. The Humanette Jacks have the RI ability, so can RI once per game without needing a card, but they Slam only at 4+ (and being Jacks, with 4 dice at most). The Bug Jacks are interesting, they have the ability Slide, so can RI at greater range than 1 hex (typically 2 hexes), but they need a card to RI (not to mention good dice). And they suffer in development because their Strikers hog the experience.

So all in all, it's tough for the Jacks. It will take cunning and perseverance to develop and retain them.

All the best.

[javascrybe]

There's been (very very non-official) discussions about switching some of the Striker bonuses to Jacks, namely Stand Up, Dash and Evade. The idea could be to make them into "getting into the right spot" specialists. Jake even "did not disown" the idea somewhere on his blog (to say he endorsed it would be a stretch )

Your thoughts, in the light of your playing time?

[Chris]

Yes, I would go for something like that. Teams with strikers really dominate the other teams and the better the striker the better you are. Yet to have a game with strikers do the 14 turn distance when playing a team with no/worse strikers.

[Smeborg]

There's been (very very non-official) discussions about switching some of the Striker bonuses to Jacks, namely Stand Up, Dash and Evade. The idea could be to make them into "getting into the right spot" specialists. Jake even "did not disown" the idea somewhere on his blog (to say he endorsed it would be a stretch )

Your thoughts, in the light of your playing time?

It's a Striker's game, to be sure. In my experience, the team with the better Strikers almost always wins.

One feature of the game design is that only Guards (for Strength rolls) and Strikers (for Speed and Skill rolls) get that crucial 4th (or 5th) bonus die, Jacks get 3 dice (or less) for everything they do (except moving and Slamming, which gets 4 dice, but they rarely Slam if you have a Guard around). The extra bonus die is crucial to Strikers' mobility (Standing Up, Dashing, Evading). If they are unmarked, they can expect doubled success when Standing Up, getting them a Free Action. The extra die enables them to Dash twice when they need to. These things are particularly easy for Strikers with Skill of 3+ (Veer-Myn, Judwan).

So yes, without playtesting, and off the top of my head, it would seem a good and interesting idea to transfer some of the Speed check bonus dice from the Strikers to the Jacks, leading to the more balanced table:

- Guards get 1 bonus die for Slams, Slambacks, Stomps (all Strength rolls).
- Jacks get 1 bonus die for Dashing, Evading, Standing Up (most but not all Speed rolls).
- Strikers get 1 bonus die for Catching, Picking Up, Stealing, Throwing (all Skill rolls), and Dodging and Feinting [Judwan only] (Speed rolls).

Only the bonuses for Dodging and Feinting look perhaps a bit out of place in this table, but I doubt you will get perfection.

I'm a bit surprised Jake didn't think of this a long time ago. When I first read the rules, I was a bit surprised at how lowly the Jacks were. They are very quiet players, you just use them for "assists" and quiet static defense most of the time. More quiet than Linemen in BB. With regard to the proposed rule change, I think it is the reduction in mobility of the Strikers that would have the biggest impact on the game (rather than the improvement in mobility of the Jacks).

One important issue that would not be much altered by this possible rule change is that it is very difficult to skill up the Jacks. But this would at least be improved a little.

Good suggestion, all the best.

[Edit: I suspect the suggested change might change the balance of the game towards the bashy teams (those which start with 3+ ST Guards). Only playtesting would tell.]

[Smeborg]

Played our inaugural league game today (which I have christened the I.V. League, of course). My lovely little MRSA SuperBugs got crushed in a landslide win by Humies (turn 13). The Bugs only scored once in 4 attempts, while the Humies rcked up 5 Strikes in 6 attempts. Not far off par for the course...

All the best.

[Smeborg]

THE VICTORY CONDITIONS are something I rather like in DB.

Even when you are getting well beaten, you are usually able to put up a good fight to try and prevent a 7-point landslide defeat. My last game referred to above is a good example of this; I only conceded the landslide on my opponent's last turn, a little good fortune would have seen me lose "narrowly" (say by 5 or 6 points).

A narrow loss helps in two ways. Firstly it is worth a point to the loser (points split 2-1 compared to 3-0 for a landslide). Secondly, it is worth 1xD6 winnings (winnings dice split the same way as game points, plus each team gets a fixed 6 MC in Season Two rules).

So it is rare for a game to lose interest (as long as the Judwan are not involved, of course...).

[Chris]

Thinking more about switching the +1 dice from strikers to jacks we will be trying switching steal, stand up and evade.

Idea being Guards are the monsters, Strikers the ball handlers (thanks to the gloves), jacks general interference (so steal, getting up, moving about the pitch etc).

I can see the neatness of switching speed to them, but I just don't think speed when I think Jacks. I could be turned though on dash if I can see other experiences of it.

Steal though as a combination of skill and strength looks like a natural Jack skill. We might just start with that though with no judwan being fielded yet we haven't used it much.

[Smeborg]

Chris - I'm not seeking any rules changes yet, I sometimes think of things I might like to change, but I usually find reasons in practical play as to why the rule is as it is.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

A heroic effort by the Bots to lose "narrowly" to the Judwan (by 6 points). Could have been better for the Bots, as they missed a 3-pointer (and did not attempt to score on the last turn of the game). The Judwan scored all their Strikes (they have 3 players with 3+ Skill), getting four 3-pointers and two 1-pointers (they chose not to score on their remaining turn).

The Judwan are now 16 points out of 18 in 6 games. Only the 2nd and 3rd placed teams (Bots and FF) have prevented a landslide win.