Eurobowl Captain's meeting - please read and feedback.

[Wulfyn]

Hello everyone,

for those that have not been in the loop so much there has been some rather lively discussion on the Eurobowl discord as to the ruleset. I can now confirm that the rules are largely going to remain as they are, with only minor tweaks being looked at. I think I speak for many in the England community to say that this is a disappointing result. I think we have always maintained that Eurobowl should be the global premier competitive event in our hobby, and that is from a combination of great players and great rules.

Among the captains there has also been a conversation, and this has maybe been a little easier to follow due to the reduced number of participants. I wanted to share that the feeling from the majority of captains is that the ruleset is not as important a part of the Eurobowl experience. There are some, like myself, who want to see future tournaments having some high level of competitiveness maintained, but the majority are either apathetic to the rules (feeling that some years it will be dicier than others), or supportive of the changes that have been made.

However there are other things that are still up for discussion. The Captain's meeting agenda has been set and I am posting here to share this with the community so that I can get your feedback and involvement for what you would like. I know that TFF is not always the best place to respond, so I will also be looking for people to invite me to their community discords (etc.) so that I can speak directly if you prefer not to post here. You can also message me directly Wulfyn#2602, or DM me here.

[Wulfyn]

And here is a chess clock proposal.

[Dodge22]

I don't have any skin in the game when it comes to Eurobowl / European, but I would expect the chess clock rules to be implemented at other events.

In my view they need a lot of work to bring them up to a reasonable standard. Hopefully, these will be improved but if the black text is fixed then this could lead to some very interesting times. A rules lawyer could have a field day

My thoughts, which I suspect only catches some of the holes

1. It would be useful if the pre-match sequence was defined. Either specifically state what is included all include a rule book reference

2. Presumably this includes greetings and explaining your team to the other coach in a potentially foreign language, are rounds drawn with enough time for people to arrive set up then do a 5 minute pre game sequence?
i - if both coaches arrive on time how is this dealt with if it's not completed for round start

3. Time running out. Only option B would appear to be less abusable. The main option could potentially be abused. Similar with C.

4. What happens if a fault occurs with the chess clock through user error or system fault. This happened to me when using a clock with a coach who was unfamiliar with the app. Rare but could happen especially if one coach is away from the table and could be abused.

5. The rules say the clock starts after the pre-match sequence which includes the defensive setup. This is unfair and doesn't give equal times to both coaches. The clock should start before defensive setup.

[Dodge22]

6. Post drive sequence both players need to roll for KOs / bribes as this may affect defensive setups. I think this is covered in part but could be clearer

7.Point 3 page 2 blitz should be Solid Defence

8. The comment on rules queries should hopefully stop clock abuse through rules.

[Dodge22]

9. It probably also needs guidance on how to deal putting clocks on part way through a game. Common sense should make this easy but.

[UncleHank]

Maybe I missed it in the agenda but potentially worth looking at whether NAF should define some tournaments and "majors". For example Eurobowl and the World Cup are majors and therefore come with a pre-agreed templated NAF ruleset and the NAF have a committee or committee member that is closely involved in the organisation and delivery of the tournament. That would allow for a minimum standard format and would, hopefully, reduce some of the frictions currently being seen around ruleset.

Expanding on this point you could have Majors, Minors and NAF sanctioned tournaments. Majors must stick to the agreed ruleset, which can be updated and amended through the NAF and using feedback, minors can have variations and the NAF sanctioned tournaments can be as wild as you like.

[Purplegoo]

I could get into the pros and cons of the meat of the two documents, but at a high level, I can't help but feel this is a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut. How have we gone from the highlight of the year to a disappointing ruleset to an existential crisis, all of a sudden?

Take the chess clocks as an example. If you make rounds 2.5 hours and apply common sense in the refereeing, the 'problem' goes away without the need for a 3 page document, 3 votes and a number of potential arguments over loopholes around Blood Bowl specific issues.

I don't envy you, Dan. That looks like a long meeting.

[lunchmoney]

I've run more than a few Speedbowls now, and I don't think my clock rules (the heart of Speedbowl) was ever more than a page.

[Wulfyn]

I've run more than a few Speedbowls now, and I don't think my clock rules (the heart of Speedbowl) was ever more than a page.

Would you mind sharing the latest version please? Might help provide a counterpoint to these rules. I think we all like the spirit of them, but are a bit perplexed by the execution of them.

Also thanks for the feedback from everyone else, I am collating them even if I don't reply individually

[lunchmoney]

I've run more than a few Speedbowls now, and I don't think my clock rules (the heart of Speedbowl) was ever more than a page.

Would you mind sharing the latest version please? Might help provide a counterpoint to these rules. I think we all like the spirit of them, but are a bit perplexed by the execution of them.

Also thanks for the feedback from everyone else, I am collating them even if I don't reply individually

https://member.thenaf.net/index.php?mod ... ew&id=7448
The last speed I ran I put all the rules in the NAF listing. I've lost all the pdfs from years gone by.

[Loki]

Al's Speedbowl 2014 timer rules…

SPEEDBOWLtm RULES
The turn timer is in strict use.
Digital timers will be supplied for each coach. These will be set to 2 minutes.
This is very important and the whole point of Speedbowltm. It is your
responsibility to start your opponent’s clock and to inform them of the count
down. You should give warnings when there is 1 minute left, 30 seconds and
then give a countdown from 10 seconds. When your time is up you can
complete the action you are doing and that is all. Your turn is over.
Here are a couple of examples:

a) A block is thrown; the block dice show a Defender Down then the time
runs out. You may place your opponent down, follow up and make an
AV/Injury roll. Roll for a bouncing ball if it has come loose. Then your turn is
over.
b) You have declared a pass action, made the pass roll and the timer ends.
You may make the scatter, catch and/or bounce rolls, and then your turn is
over.
c) You declare a Blitz action, but before you move your player the timer
ends. Your turn is over.
d) You declare a Blitz action, move your player into position and roll the
block dice. You may now resolve the block action as per example a). Then
your turn is over.

There may be times when you perform an action and your opponent can
interrupt (eg Pass Block and Dump-Off). When these events occur your
opponent should stop the clock whilst he/she resolves his/her interrupting
event. Once the event is complete, restart the clock and continue. The
longer you take to resolve your Dump-Off (for example) the more time you
are giving your opponent to think about the rest of their turn. So be quick!

Once your time runs out you may roll over any Stunned players, resolve any
ball bounces and any other, unforeseen, between turn events. Then play
passes to your opponent.

The longer you take to complete your between turn items the more time you
give to your opponent. So be quick!

You will also only have 2 minutes to set up for each Kick-Off.

If any other concerns over the timer arise, please do not hesitate to ask me
about it.

[besters]

To be honest, having just read them, I think these rules could be condensed to a page, but the clarity could certainly be improved in the process. Whilst I would disagree with penalising a player time if they need a comfort break.

I would suggest all set up be outside the time frame, as is a 10 minute half time break and reduce the time available to 60 - 65 minutes each.

Generally I'm against clocks, most games finish in 2 hours, few go over 2 1/4 hours, generally seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill.

[torquemada]

I think having an external committee draft the EB rules sounds fine, but devil is in the details. Who this committee end up being, how they are selected, and what their mandate is is absolutely key, and if this option is to be used I would like to see detailed discussion of those factors.

Re: chess clocks, mandatory clocks in EB (and only EB, not EO) sounds reasonable after Greece. I think the rules as written could use some tweaking, particularly:

• Auto-lose on time over seems overly harsh and could lead to silly situations and counterintuitive play

• Not being allowed to touch your minis on your opponent's clock feels odd, needless and gameable

In general though, I'm all for having standard rules for clocks. In my experience uneven use of round time is a problem, maybe not in every game but it happens enough that it negatively affects people's experience and can lead to suspicions of deliberate slow play which, even if unfounded, can be damaging to the community. I don't think clocks should be mandatory for every game (though TOs should have the prerogative to mandate them!) but having standard rules for them I hope will help normalise their use and remove some of the awkwardness around them.

[lunchmoney]

Re: chess clocks, mandatory clocks in EB (and only EB, not EO) sounds reasonable after Greece.

Was there a problem with too many people not finishing on time?

[torquemada]

Re: chess clocks, mandatory clocks in EB (and only EB, not EO) sounds reasonable after Greece.

Was there a problem with too many people not finishing on time?

Not exactly, but timings were enforced with extreme strictness, which came as a bit of a shock to many. Clocks would have gone a long way towards mitigating the impact of that in my opinion.