English Coaches ... Team England Committee Election 2018

[Purplegoo]

Sorry if I slightly misunderstood your primary thrust, Dan.

Do you really think that the majority of English Blood Bowlers that have played a NAF tournament in the past 12 months don't use TFF? I know there are plenty of new, BB2016 faces in the SE that maybe don't, but I suspect the majority of the possible electorate do, even if they do so begrudgingly and see it as a necessary evil..?

If we think the majority (or even a moderate to large minority) do not use TFF, I suppose it's a fair point that it's a restrictive voting system. I'm having a slightly hard time seeing it as a significantly restrictive one, though. If you're interested, you see an ad and spend < 30 seconds making an account? Perhaps I'm wrong and you're right in thinking it's a significant deal, I don't know.

[speedingbullet]

It's a shame there was no time to discuss what people thought about the oft-debated topics, since they're apparently now going to have carte blanche to do as they please with them.

Just on this point, the election of a committee does not immediately change anything about how Team England operates. i.e. Team England is governed by the Charter and the election of a committee will not change that. The first task of the committee is draft a new charter and put that charter to the community for acceptance or rejection by community vote. This first task may take some time. Fortunately there is plenty of time between Cardiff and EuroBowl 2020.

[Wulfyn]

I can only speak from personal experience regarding the volume of the electorate that use tff, but certainly having attended a few London tournaments with the Hard6 and Dragon Bowl guys there is a lack of new players from there that use or have even heard of tff. That's not data of course so take that with a healthy dose of scepticism.

My point however is a wider one. You cannot talk about wanting to be more inclusive and then not making the effort to reach out. I'll quote Geoff's statement to this regard which remember sparked this whole process into life:

One of the principles of the Euros is that it is representative of the views of that nation’s coaches. With only a dozen or so coaches participating in discussions about the EuroBowl team, it clearly leaves a large proportion of English coaches whose voices haven’t been heard.

How many people voted in the committee decision election? Was it that many more than a typical captaincy election? Does that suggest that we have succeeded in reaching out to be more inclusive?

It is easy to say that we should be more inclusive. It's the right thing to say after all. But it is not the default way that people work. It takes real effort to be more inclusive because you have to spend time reaching out to welcome them in. It feels to me like the first time we as a community have had to make that effort we've backed out saying it is too much work.


I also back up purplegoo's sentiments around how it is a shame that we didn't get to hear more about the candidates' vision for the TE future. Whilst I accept that there will be a vote on the proposed charter this doesn't cover all the concerns. Any futute charter will be a compromise of the different opinions that the elected committee has. Similarly any vote will be a reflection of that compromise; I have and will vote for things that I am not 100% happy with just because it is the best option put before me. So voting for the committee members is my way of controlling what is put before me. Otherwise we may as well pick 4 names out of a hat to write the new charter.

All of the candidates' statements are basically identical in talking about who they are and why their experience makes them a good choice. All are advocating change. But without seeing what that change will be, what their vision for the future is, then how do I know who to back? And without that what will happen is that I'll end up voting for people like alex, bren, jim, nick, and will because I know them and they are my friends. So then the whole election just becomes a popularity contest around who has the most mates, which is a really sucky way to decide an election.

[besters]

So then the whole election just becomes a popularity contest around who has the most mates, which is a really sucky way to decide an election.

I guess playing Devils Advocate, or just being my natural cynic, but isn't that the way most if not all elections are decided? Not saying it's right though.

A couple of thoughts:

1. Shouldn't we treat this as an iterative process, making a start is good, it can be improved as we move forward.
2. Some people, not me, have put a lot of effort into this process, that should be applauded. As a group I think we tend to focus on the negative.

Personally, I'm not against the status quo, I didn't vote for a committee to be put in place. But I want the situation to be explored, resolved, and not keep being resurrected negatively every few months. I hope that's possible.

besters

[Pipey]

@Wulfyn - Sounds like Q&A as suggested by Speedingbullet a couple of weeks back.

…it is a shame that we didn't get to hear more about the candidates' vision for TE

Taking this as a question, I can give you a little more on my vision.


Firstly the committee needs structure, boring but essential stuff:

-Length of tenures
Suggest a period of years for elected committee to allow this job to be done properly for EB2020 onwards; new elected captain likely to be required sooner on the assumption the captain continues to have a role in selection and policy

-Timescales around date for proposed new charter
Suggest charter proposal and vote before NAFWC 2019

-Longer term timescales around ongoing review of policy
Suggest we use NAFWC/EB cycle as a natural existing structure

-Committee activity needs to be communicated clearly to the community
Suggest publishing concise meeting notes here on TFF


Regarding what kind of charter I would like to see presented to the community, here’s a few thoughts:

-We should present a charter which reflects at least some change from the current model. This seems obvious in a way since putting “carry on with the status quo” to community vote seems bizarre after all our recent debates and votes. Indeed, a vote of No to that proposal would leave us starting from scratch completely, not really moving things forward at all.

-Currently a captain is appointed from a restricted set of previously capped players, picking his team 100% subjectively. I feel this selection model needs to be changed as it can lead to disengagement, especially when captains do not engage in public Team England discussions.

-As a remedy to the above I feel we need to either (a) reduce restrictions on who may be captain, allowing the community free and fair choice of who will be their captain and subjective selector, or (b) add some objective qualification, perhaps alongside subjective picks. Or indeed (c) some of both (a) and (b). Potential changes of this kind were a theme in recent TFF discussions so it would seem appropriate for the committee to pursue this line of discussion. Any objective selection model (b) would have to be treated with extreme care since we know stats, ratings, rankings don't always give a representative picture.

-We need to integrate EO and EB such that taking part in either event involves representing England. At the current rate of growth the next EurOpen could be twice the size of EB and arguably a harder event to win. An English win at EO (so far not achieved, perhaps incongruous given our Eurobowl dominance) should be a firm aim and we should value both tournaments equally. I'd like to see an official EurOpen Team England.

-Aside from the more formal policy stuff, we should continue to use this site as a discussion forum for all other aspects of the Team England experience such as rosters, shirts, travel and any general debate.


Having said all of the above, being on the committee would involve a flow of ideas between members. If elected, I have no idea who else would be alongside me and what their feelings would be on structures and policy. There would doubtless be aspects I had not considered so I would look forward to my ideas being challenged and my opinions potentially changed.

Happy to answer any more queries if anyone has any.

[sann0638]

Roundabout 25 votes so far - keep spreading the word, people!

[Joemanji]

I expected a much bigger turnout given that we were led believe the sky was falling and the uncounted masses of the English Community were demanding change.

[lunchmoney]

I've just had a vote PM'd to me. It was sent to the Team Wales group (which I am a part of) as well as the TeamEnglandAdmin user account.

Not sure why but please check who you sending your votes to

[Pipey]

I expected a much bigger turnout given that we were led believe the sky was falling and the uncounted masses of the English Community were demanding change.

I sense sarcasm... Or is it reverse psychology to trigger a response from the electorate?

Anyone with an interest please vote! Preferably to the right address...

[besters]

I expected a much bigger turnout given that we were led believe the sky was falling and the uncounted masses of the English Community were demanding change.

I think part of the issue is a few people talk a lot. Most people switch off these issues very quickly, I'm interested, but it's still a slog. So I'm not entirely surprised.

I did think of asking for an update on the number of votes at the weekend, but thought that might not be quite ethical.

[speedingbullet]

Last time we voted there was a late flurry of voting. Hopefully that will happen again.

[Maverick]

Think there’s a history of late voting with Team England :#

[Jip]

I think part of the issue is a few people talk a lot. Most people switch off these issues very quickly, I'm interested, but it's still a slog.

That's why I've not voted, it's just dragged on and been stymied at every junction. It's a good point that someone made about not knowing the intent of the candidates, too. I'd be voting for a name I recognise, or a nice person I've played Blood Bowl with, which doesn't seem the best basis for establishing leadership.

Genuinely wish good luck to whoever comes out top though, hopefully the decision making process will be a lot easier for him/them once this is all decided.

Just hope it's all worth it.

[Pipey]

Hi Jip – I think we’ve all felt a bit jaded at times by how torturous this has been. Never as straightforward as you hope.

Let the committee deal with the red tape, stymying, call it what you will. Once this is done the path forward will be much simpler.

Thanks for the well wishes to the committee candidates. I hope you change your mind and do vote as it’s been refreshing to hear your opinions as a new voice to the debate.

I’m still positive about a good turnout. Hopeful that 25 will at least double as things pick up towards the weekend.

[Purplegoo]

Think there’s a history of late voting with Team England :#

I laughed quite hard. Good one.