Official England EurOpen Team at Cardiff and beyond

[Nippy Longskar]

Cheers Jip, this is pretty much exactly the same page I'm on.

[Leipziger]

+1 to the above

[speedingbullet]

And another +1.

P.S. Plenty of scope for team names too e.g. Team England Irregulars or even Team England A which, although it lacks inspiration, has an appropriate abbreviation!

[speedingbullet]

Or, at least for this year, does the representative team keep their original team name? Just had a look down the list of Europen teams and there don't seem to be any (no more than one or two anyway) that are identified by name as representing their nation.

[Barney the Lurker]

I've been having a bit of a think about this and I think that going forward if we are to have an official Team England Europen team then I think that it should be made by the main captain, so he will be choosing 8 + 3.

This means that if you do put your name in the hat for Team England, you are signing up to either go in the main team for the EO team if you are chosen.

Yes, this may mean that if you've organised your own EO team it may mean some reorganisation issues, but I think the disruption would be pretty minimal overall, and if you want to plat as part of TE it should be an sacrifice you are willing to make.

Team Shirts,

I know I've talked about this already, but I still think that anyone English who goes to a Eurobowl should be able to get an England shirt. Although I do like Mark's idea to only have the stars on the main team, and the EO number on the Europen team. Anyone else just gets a plain badge and their name on the back.

[Pipey]

What about a single badge with EB stars, but also room for EO stars or some other symbol e.g. diamonds or similar? One above the crest, one below?

On the subject of Lycos possibly picking an EO team to represent England, I've dropped him a line in case he's missed this.

[Purplegoo]

Just from a current status quo point of view - I had a bit of a skim read through the 2013 / 4 era threads (when 'shirts for all' was first introduced as a thing), and we had a handful of takers from EO travellers, probably in the region of a quarter to a third? I think I'm right in saying that anyone attending that wanted a shirt got badge (stars and all) and name, but not a number. This feels about right to me, rather than producing a number of different shirts meaning different things; the number is a clear, aspirational differentiator but the look is pretty uniform. We even got Ben a shirt even though he didn't come that year. Seems fair enough; part of the benefit is that people wear their TE apparel around the circuit and that starts a conversation.

[Barney the Lurker]

Good points Phil, also the different badges on the front could make the shirts more expensive too as each one for TE/EO/Other would technically be a separate design.

Seems fair enough; part of the benefit is that people wear their TE apparel around the circuit and that starts a conversation.

That's my thinking too, gets the discussions going, and also a visible presence for TE as a whole.

[lunchmoney]

... part of the benefit is that people wear their TE apparel around the circuit and that starts a conversation.

Can I get one? Even though I will never (probably) be good enough to play for TE?

[Pipey]

I think I'm right in saying that anyone attending that wanted a shirt got badge (stars and all) and name, but not a number...

Seems good to continue with this, stars for all. Only Lycos and Geggster have been directly involved with winning all six of England's stars so do I only get three stars on my shirt? Purplegoo gets five? PeteW none at all?

@Lunch - the idea most seem to agree on is that anyone who pitches up to EO can have a shirt, so that's fine of course!

[Purplegoo]

I think I'm right in saying that anyone attending that wanted a shirt got badge (stars and all) and name, but not a number...

Seems good to continue with this, stars for all. Only Lycos and Geggster have been directly involved with winning all six of England's stars so do I only get three stars on my shirt? Purplegoo gets five? PeteW none at all?

@Lunch - the idea most seem to agree on is that anyone who pitches up to EO can have a shirt, so that's fine of course!

That isn't exactly what I meant. To be explicit, the way it has worked to date is that EB players get a shirt with the badge (which includes the current number of stars for won EBs), a name and a 'cap' number. EO players get the same but without the number, the sole differentiator. England have won six Eurobowls - the shirts get six stars. I think you'll be needlessly increasing costs for everybody and making things look pretty weird if you start to give out stars only for wins that coaches have been directly involved with. It also isn't the way the 'stars' concept works in sport; the team / country has earned the stars, the current incumbents of the shirts are immaterial.

There is precedent for Al to get a shirt whether he comes to Cardiff or not. Again - I'm just reporting the status quo since it doesn't seem to be widely known, rather than saying this is what we should go along with. That's for newer coaches to steer, in my opinion.

Everybody can be good enough to play for TE - Al. Team England is for you if you want it to be. There's no shame in aspiring to get a number of your own; it makes me pretty happy when coaches like Owen admit they want it, I hope he one day makes it.

[Pipey]

I think I'm right in saying that anyone attending that wanted a shirt got badge (stars and all) and name, but not a number...

Seems good to continue with this, stars for all. Only Lycos and Geggster have been directly involved with winning all six of England's stars so do I only get three stars on my shirt? Purplegoo gets five? PeteW none at all?

@Lunch - the idea most seem to agree on is that anyone who pitches up to EO can have a shirt, so that's fine of course!

That isn't exactly what I meant. To be explicit, the way it has worked to date is that EB players get a shirt with the badge (which includes the current number of stars for won EBs), a name and a 'cap' number. EO players get the same but without the number, the sole differentiator. England have won six Eurobowls - the shirts get six stars. I think you'll be needlessly increasing costs for everybody and making things look pretty weird if you start to give out stars only for wins that coaches have been directly involved with. It also isn't the way the 'stars' concept works in sport; the team / country has earned the stars, the current incumbents of the shirts are immaterial.

There is precedent for Al to get a shirt whether he comes to Cardiff or not. Again - I'm just reporting the status quo since it doesn't seem to be widely known, rather than saying this is what we should go along with. That's for newer coaches to steer, in my opinion.

Everybody can be good enough to play for TE - Al. Team England is for you if you want it to be. There's no shame in aspiring to get a number of your own; it makes me pretty happy when coaches like Owen admit they want it, I hope he one day makes it.

We're on the same page. I wasn't suggesting differential numbers of stars. Rather pointing out that it might be pretty crazy / complicated if we did. Single logo best?

[lunchmoney]

Everybody can be good enough to play for TE - Al. Team England is for you if you want it to be. There's no shame in aspiring to get a number of your own; it makes me pretty happy when coaches like Owen admit they want it, I hope he one day makes it.

I'm going to be Cardiff; wearing a Zebra shirt and keeping all you reprobates in line


I'd love to play for TE but I am realistic; there are dozens of better players out there all vying for a spot. And my ability to travel around Europe is severely limited by other factors

[Nippy Longskar]

So...the direction this seems to be going towards so far, and some thoughts of my own:

1) Most people want there to be a single official EuroOpen Team England

2) The method of deciding who these three coaches are is up for debate...both the 'make your team and then nominate yourselves for vote/selection' and 'TE captain picks all 11' options seem reasonably popular...maybe there are others? Qualification criteria? Acknowledgement of contribution to the English BB Community over the past year?

3) Any English coach who wants an England shirt can have one (subject to paying for it!) and the design is uniform throughout, but only the EB and EO representatives would get cap numbers? Should the EO ones be differentiated by an EB prefix or similar?

4) We are going to need to set some kind of timescale for deciding all this (at least for this year)...Phil/Joe/Bren, in your experience how much lead in time do the shirt orders need...and would this be impacted if we end up with a big order for 30 shirts and hoodies or whatever?

5) For the sake of clarity, if we do end up with one Eur'Open Team England and a number of English coaches also representing Team England at Eur'Open, what do we call the 'official' team to identify them?

6) If people are interested in this and have league-mates they think would be too, can you give them a prod in the direction of this thread? I did this on the Waterbowl Facebook page yesterday and had a useful chat with one coach who was interested but knew nothing about any of it.

[speedingbullet]

.....
6) If people are interested in this and have league-mates they think would be too, can you give them a prod in the direction of this thread? I did this on the Waterbowl Facebook page yesterday and had a useful chat with one coach who was interested but knew nothing about any of it.

Is this thread open to everyone to view? I ask only because, if I recall correctly, there is also a Team Wales forum on TFF but I can't find it. Does that mean these team specific forms are restricted in terms of who can view them? If so, how does TFF know who should be able to view these forums and could that mean some English coaches aren't able to see this?