Official England EurOpen Team at Cardiff and beyond

[Sandwich]

I'm not going to EB/EO this year, and most years for the foreseeable future it won't be happening due to clashing with birthdays.
But I think a question is in future years, would there be one "official" team England for the EO?

In my opinion, anyone who has put themselves forwards for the EB (meeting the various criteria etc), but not been selected for the team, should be offered a place in the Team England EurOpen fold. I'm fully aware that some people might want to form their own teams if not selected for EB (hence saying they should be "offered" a place), but what reason is there for people not being part of Team England?

For this year, I think it follows on from an answer to that. If there will only be one TE EO team in future, then keep it to one for now. If not, then why not have more?

Hiya Sandwich...I think your thinking is in line with where option one is going...anyone who wants one can have an England shirt and be 'in the fold', but only one of those teams of three are the actual EO TE with cap numbers of some kind.

Am I representing your thinking accurately...or are you actually more in favour of option 2?

I think my thinking is not quite option 1, but its not as open as option 2.

There are already restrictions on who is eligible to play for Team England EuroBowl - must have played X tournaments or whatever. If there are 15 such people willing to travel to represent the country, then IMO they should be given the opportunity to do so. If they're not selected for the EB team, then they should be offered a EO team place instead, so if you end up with 2 or 3 TE teams in the Europen then so be it. As stated, I don't think everyone would take the option, as people might want to team up with friends/league colleagues/random strangers/whatever instead...

Note: I don't think the EurOpen coaches in this should get caps/numbers, just a shirt. That way the core TE EB team is more special, and something to aim for. But in this new age of inclusiveness , why not allow several TE teams in EO as well?

[Jip]

This seems to have become a quagmire of semantics whereas, last time I had a read of this thread, it was actually quite driven and clear.

For me, it needs not be any more complex than:

One Team England EuroBowl team -
Picked by the captain, made up of coaches who register their interest with him/her.

One Team England EurOpen team -
Picked by the captain/team or community, made up of a team of coaches whose captain register his/her team's interest with the Team England captain (or whoever is making the selection).

A more wordy version can be found here, on page 1.

Those two teams are marked out in whichever way, and the rest of us do our own thing, with the possibility of a patch to denote we are part of team England, by virtue (vice?) of being English.

Having a tonne of English lads turn up in tour t-shirts never seems to end well...

[Leipziger]

We now have two clear options for 2018:

1) a single team, picked from interested teams by process of a hidden community vote (i.e. results are not visible during tge voting)

2) a set of Europen team englands, in an 'open to all' format.

Lets pick between those two before making a call on cap numbers.

Can everyone who's interested please weigh in with which option they prefer (and why if you like).

Thanks everyone!!

A quick reminder of the two choices.

[Wilf]

For me, I like the idea of a Team England EurOpen team, but if we're going down that route I think there should only be one.

Nippy's solution for choosing one this year is as good as there will be imo and I'd agree the captain should pick in future.

I don't think there should be more than one EurOpen team representing 'England', I think it's something that is given to someone who just misses out on a EuroBowl place and would provide encouragement for them to make that final step into the EuroBowl 8.

Not sure, but I'd be surprised if there's more than 2 or 3 teams who'd want to represent England, based on previous interest levels anyway.

If you miss out, it's no different to not getting a EuroBowl slot, you just focus on beating members of that team for the next year to make your point about not being picked

[Sizzler]

I'm probably going against the grain here but I'm not sure that the Europen needs, or should have, an official 'Team England'. One of the joys of the Europen as a tournament has always been its more relaxed and laid back attitude. As a tournament with no eligibility requirement, it may become diluted should nations begin populating it with auxiliary teams and approaching it as a sort of 'Eurobowl Lite'. I appreciate that this may have been the intention at the Eurobowl's inception (happy to stand corrected as I'm not too well-up on my BB history) but it has grown into so much more and is now a fully functioning tournament in its own right.

However I really like the idea of an English community abroad and any efforts that move towards this should be heartily applauded. Caps, shirts, dice, flags - anything that instils a sense of togetherness and of being part of something and being in it together - would work well so I'm fully supportive of this idea. Purplegoo's seminal recruitment drive for Belgium 2014 really drove home the notion of a unified English contingent. His relentless canvassing and campaigning, as well as all English coaches being offered an England shirt, truly made it feel as though we were all part of the same group. I worry that this sense of community wouldn't necessarily be replicated if certain teams within the Europen were selected to represent their country and other weren't.

If we were to have a Team England in the Europen, at the very least it should be the community that decides so I'd go for option 1. Anything that gets the English community talking is good news though. It's obvious that most of the posters here are supportive of the idea and if this stimulates discussion and encourages more English coaches to head overseas for Blood Bowl then I can't argue about it being a promising initiative.

[Purplegoo]

I've been keeping quiet to try and encourage more new voices with new ideas to come forward, but with input naturally slowing down, I'll throw my 2p in.

I think Andy's post is really interesting. We've had relatively few EO participants in the past, so a contrary view from someone with actual experience of the tournament is something to keep front of mind. I know that Barn seemed relatively keen early in the thread, so are we one pro, one con from our previous EO coaches (if I've missed someone else on a skim - apologies!)?

Personally, I've always been keen on the EO TE concept, but I think we have to decide first what we want it to achieve. Are we all about winning? If so, the skipper picking 8 + 3 is sensible. Are we more about development? In that case, old, wise, talented heads that miss out on TE such as Geoff this year should probably miss the EO team too as we look to bring through new or on the bubble talent. I know if I'd not been selected, I would probably have liked to look up some of my European friends and form a fun new team I might otherwise not ever experience. You don't learn much about me by me hogging a TE EO spot. Are we all about fun and maximising the 'England on tour' inclusivity vibe at the event as a whole? Probably best not to form a TE EO team at all; just maximise shirt sales and push the wider team narrative.

I think for this year, it would be most sensible to not pick or vote upon a single team and then revisit the conversation when far more of the correspondents have participated in a EO. Perhaps with some experience they'll all feel like Andy above? After a more informed chat, we have two years to bring a bit of structure and democracy to proceedings and sort out formally what we want to do for Poland and beyond.

Edit: Curses, missed Wil. However, his EO outing was pre-teams, so I guess a touch different.

[Jip]

I think for this year, it would be most sensible to not pick or vote upon a single team and then revisit the conversation when far more of the correspondents have participated in a EO. Perhaps with some experience they'll all feel like Andy above? After a more informed chat, we have two years to bring a bit of structure and democracy to proceedings and sort out formally what we want to do for Poland and beyond.

I genuinely believe this will be less of a hotly contested issue (opportunity?) in subsequent years - English coaches travelling over the bridge to Cardiff is a bit easier on the wallet and logistics than making it all the way to Portugal (last year) or Poland and beyond, in future.

Perhaps a large part of this topic coming to the fore is actually just because us 'glory supporters' are following England an hour or two over the bridge!

[Purplegoo]

While I’m sure we’ll get fewer traveling to Poland than to Cardiff, perhaps we’ll get more again going to Scotland when it’s there? I suspect Poland may go better than we’d otherwise expect, following a number of coaches catching the EB / EO bug in Cardiff.

Either way, I’m not sure numbers are that important when sorting out the principle. If TE is a community project, a better informed community making the decision as to how to form a EO team, if at all, is fine. If we get 8 + 4 or 8 + 40 traveling in future, how the EO works for the + x is no less important to you if you’re interested and going.

If we get a spike of interest because: Cardiff, all the better.

[Barney the Lurker]

I had a brief chat with Andy before he posted his thoughts, and overall I think my personal preferences mirror his. If I don't get picked for the main team, I'd rather form my own ad-hoc EO team with potentially non-English friends than try for a dedicated TE team.

I think we have to decide first what we want it to achieve. Are we all about winning? If so, the skipper picking 8 + 3 is sensible.

I think this is the big question. If we want to form a mini team England to try and win the Europen, I think this is the way to go.

I can't really see how a 'development' team would work that couldn't already be achieved by more input by the community as a whole.

However we decide to proceed, I still believe any English person attending should have an opportunity to get a shirt - Those with caps get their numbers, those without just their names. I think any other splitting of Main TE Team / Europen TE Team / Other English would be too confusing, and a bit of a logistical nightmare to boot!

[Leipziger]

I've been keeping quiet to try and encourage more new voices with new ideas to come forward, but with input naturally slowing down, I'll throw my 2p in.

I think Andy's post is really interesting. We've had relatively few EO participants in the past, so a contrary view from someone with actual experience of the tournament is something to keep front of mind. I know that Barn seemed relatively keen early in the thread, so are we one pro, one con from our previous EO coaches (if I've missed someone else on a skim - apologies!)?

Personally, I've always been keen on the EO TE concept, but I think we have to decide first what we want it to achieve. Are we all about winning? If so, the skipper picking 8 + 3 is sensible. Are we more about development? In that case, old, wise, talented heads that miss out on TE such as Geoff this year should probably miss the EO team too as we look to bring through new or on the bubble talent. I know if I'd not been selected, I would probably have liked to look up some of my European friends and form a fun new team I might otherwise not ever experience. You don't learn much about me by me hogging a TE EO spot. Are we all about fun and maximising the 'England on tour' inclusivity vibe at the event as a whole? Probably best not to form a TE EO team at all; just maximise shirt sales and push the wider team narrative.

I think for this year, it would be most sensible to not pick or vote upon a single team and then revisit the conversation when far more of the correspondents have participated in a EO. Perhaps with some experience they'll all feel like Andy above? After a more informed chat, we have two years to bring a bit of structure and democracy to proceedings and sort out formally what we want to do for Poland and beyond.

Edit: Curses, missed Wil. However, his EO outing was pre-teams, so I guess a touch different.

I played the Europen in Belgium. Definitely in the pro TE EO team camp.

[Purplegoo]

I knew I’d missed at least one! Of course you did, now I come to think of it.

[Pipey]

If willing teams are invited to come forward for a EO TE, then is that your solution? Those who aren't interested won't come forward, those who will will.

Same for any other potential model such as the captain saying he will pick from those individuals who are interested in forming TE EO, if that system were used in future.

Nippy's option one worth a try? Seemed the more popular of his suggested methods.

[Nippy Longskar]

I've been keeping quiet to try and encourage more new voices with new ideas to come forward, but with input naturally slowing down, I'll throw my 2p in.

I think Andy's post is really interesting. We've had relatively few EO participants in the past, so a contrary view from someone with actual experience of the tournament is something to keep front of mind. I know that Barn seemed relatively keen early in the thread, so are we one pro, one con from our previous EO coaches (if I've missed someone else on a skim - apologies!)?

Personally, I've always been keen on the EO TE concept, but I think we have to decide first what we want it to achieve. Are we all about winning? If so, the skipper picking 8 + 3 is sensible. Are we more about development? In that case, old, wise, talented heads that miss out on TE such as Geoff this year should probably miss the EO team too as we look to bring through new or on the bubble talent. I know if I'd not been selected, I would probably have liked to look up some of my European friends and form a fun new team I might otherwise not ever experience. You don't learn much about me by me hogging a TE EO spot. Are we all about fun and maximising the 'England on tour' inclusivity vibe at the event as a whole? Probably best not to form a TE EO team at all; just maximise shirt sales and push the wider team narrative.

I think for this year, it would be most sensible to not pick or vote upon a single team and then revisit the conversation when far more of the correspondents have participated in a EO. Perhaps with some experience they'll all feel like Andy above? After a more informed chat, we have two years to bring a bit of structure and democracy to proceedings and sort out formally what we want to do for Poland and beyond.

Edit: Curses, missed Wil. However, his EO outing was pre-teams, so I guess a touch different.

On the point of what is TE EurOpen for, maybe the community vote will help to confirm/decidd that? If the 'strongest' team on paper wins then so be it ... but if a team made up of coaches who have contributed a lot to the community recently and generally been good bloodbowling eggs gets the nod I think that'd be grand as well. Or maybe a team of up-and-comers. Who knows? But yeah the 'nominate and vote' process avoids the issue you highlight Phil, by ensuring only people that want to be on EO TE are in the running.

One thought I did have was that when captains put their team forward they could write a brief paragraph introducing the team. This could be serious or jokey, contain info about tourneys run/attended/won, or whatever they fancy. Wouldn't even have to be mandatory,

I do think we should try and do something this year though, Cardiff just seems like such a good opportunity to at least try something, and the next EB feels a long way off.

[Leipziger]

I agree, there’s a bit of momentum atm so it’d be good to get the ball rolling now rather than waiting two years to start again.

[Nippy Longskar]

Ok so looking at timescales, this is what I'm thinking...

A week tomorrow, this thread will have been running for a month, which seems like a decent length of time for people to have their say if they feel strongly. If the weight of opinion is still in favour of Option 1 at that point, then I reckon we have a one week nomination period for captains to put their teams forward (I'll start a thread for that in this subforum) , and then a one week vote. That would mean the team would be able to be announced on July 1st.

Alternatively if there's a massive push for Option 2 (which I think Phil and Barn and Sizzle were voting for...although I'm not 100% sure...guys?) Then cool, no further action needed beyond sorting shirt orders.

So, one more week to have a say...again please prompt your league mates to look at this thread and contribute/vote if they feel strongly, everyone! Cheers!!