Norse & the rules update

Fairbane · Post by **Fairbane** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:21 pm

I like the Norse team: I love the figures and the concept and the great flexibility that they offer.

However it seems to me that with the rules update they been nerfed rather badly. Piling On is no longer really worthwhile (at least not against all those AV8-9 teams) and the changes to the Wild Animal rules seems to mean Minotaurs are even worse than they were (I can only move my model on a 4+ ... so I've got to rely on setting him up opposite an opponent, blocking succesfully and then frenzy to acutally move him anywhere. I can't even Blitz!).

I suppose that a Mighty Blow/Piling On/Jump Up! Combo is pretty nasty (do you get the +1 on both Armour rolls with Mighty Blow/Piling On?) but that's an extra skill you need to get.

Should I be regretting ordering a Norse box to add to my collection? I'm starting to think so!

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:25 pm

Hi,
New WA rules are coming soon, where the 2+ applies both to block and blitz actions.
Also, many bashy teams will miss the old potent piling on. Probably, people will be taking it less. Hey - at least that is some good news for the norsemen

Martin

The Doctor · Post by **The Doctor** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:41 pm

You can still use an ogre Big Guy that is much better than minotaur.

Also you can still take PO like second skill(first is MB) for two of your blitzer because you have Jump Up and is great.

+1 for AV/injury and the possibility to re-roll the AV roll and next turn again on foot for another block.

A norse blitzer with ST 3 can't go alone and will have a lineman that gave him a support, when he beat his opponent with PO and go on ground, the lineman is there for take TZ on opponent that up from ground (assuming that AV isn't broken).

Take Norse and go for a bashing skilled game.

All player with Block and 4 player that are really strong (6-3-3-7, two abilities and one trait that normal can't have for only 90000 is a very good combo).

The Doctor

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 10:14 am

The Doctor is right, Norse are still a good team to run.

Forget the Mino and go with an Ogre. The Ogre will stay on the pitch much longer because of AV9/Thick Skull combo and he'll soak up lots of damage and distract opponents from you AV7 players.

Piling On is still a good second skill pick after mighty blow for some of the Blitzers. It can also help you if frenzy drags you into an opponents TZ, lying down voluntarily will deny the opponent a Block opportunity in his turn (gives them a foul opportunity though, but that depends on who the ref is watching and what kind of player is standing there).

If you play Norse, Guard is your best friend. Yesterday, my Norse (TR151) played Dwarfs (TR137) and scored 5-0 Cas, mostly due to 3 guard players (the dwarfs had none) that denied the Dwarfs a lot of easy blocks and gave me the possiblity to keep knocking down Dwarfs all the time.

leblanc13 · Post by **leblanc13** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:24 am

I agree that the ogre is a better choice than the Minotaur, but he still has his own problems. In my opinion he cannot be used to blitz as he will almost certainly bonehead as soon as you announce the action. He does not have block to start with and as soon as he goes down he becomes too tempting of a target not to surround and foul. One turn and your ogre could be out of the game.

Believe me, if I put a Norse Blitzer on the ground through the use of PO skill, nobody in my league would allow him to use jump up. He would be fouled relentlessly (and remain on the ground as fouling most likely would keep him there with the +1 to break armor.) No one would give it a second thought in my group. AV 7 on such a skilled player just begs opponents to foul him out of the game when he goes down.

Unfortunately the Norse really get hammered by other teams the longer the league goes on. They are really good out of the gate, but start getting pounded in the latter period of league play.

Amazons are a much more viable team over the long haul as their players can acquire both block and dodge. This means that the amazons are only put on the ground on a 1 in 6 chance if your opponent doesn't have tackle (Which is a good bet.) AV 7 doesn't matter to the Amazons since their players is rarely knocked down to begin with once they get block.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:17 pm

leblanc13 wrote:Amazons are a much more viable team over the long haul as their players can acquire both block and dodge. This means that the amazons are only put on the ground on a 1 in 6 chance if your opponent doesn't have tackle (Which is a good bet.) AV 7 doesn't matter to the Amazons since their players is rarely knocked down to begin with once they get block.

you can't compare amazon and norse blitzers tho...

leblanc13 · Post by **leblanc13** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:23 am

While it is true that Norse blitzers are amazing, they still have trouble knocking over Amazon blitzers which start with block and dodge. It would be a straight up hit with the results being that the Norse Blitzer pushes her back twice. Then when she throws the hit back on him on her turn, she will knock him down on a 1 in 3 result. I think that I like her chances overall in a straight up match (assists aside.)

Breakdown:

Norse blitzer only knocks Amazon Blitzer down 1 in 6, pushes back on 1 in 2, falls down on a 1 in 6, and nothing happens on 1 in 6. 50% of time results in a push back result. His chances of putting the Amazon blitzer on her back is the same as knocking himself down by skulling out.

Amazon blitzer knocks Norse Blitzer down on 1 in 3, pushes back 1 in 3, falls down 1 in 6, and nothing happens on 1 in 6. She has a 33% chance of knockdown on the first hit and with Amazon rerolls being as cheap as they are, she more than likely would have the opportunity of a reroll on the block dice.

I tend to like her chances better overall in a straight up confrontation. I feel that jump up is unnecessary if you are rarely knocked on your back to begin with.

Frenzy is cool, but the Amazon can pick that up later on a roll of a doubles.

While the Norseman starts out with a great skill/trait selection to start with the Amazon with no traits and two great starting skills has the advantage in a straight up confrontation.

If the Norseman has assists his chances becomes much better of knocking the Amazon on her back where she belongs.

orgak · Post by **orgak** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:00 pm

What you need to add to this analysis is that on the 3 pushbacks the norse blitzer will get against the amazon, he gets the additional block due to frenzy.

25% of Norse Blitzer down (8.5% result in one pushback prior to going down)
25% Pushback (this is a double pushback)
25% Nothing (8.5% result in one pushback prior to the no result bock)
25% Amazon Blitzer down (8.5% of these are after one pushback)

When the Amazon attacks it works out to:

16% amazon down
33% chance of pushback
16% no result
33% norseman down.

I think the key here is the double pushbacks. Used properly you can clear a lot of space with those norsemen.

I'd have to take more time to run it but I think the analysis gets more interesting for the Norse with 2 die blocks.

Add to this that after the norseman is knocked down, he can still make that his blocks against the amazon while the amazon will have to use up a blitzer to get back at the norseman.

bio · Post by **bio** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:18 pm

The Doctor

the doctor.....mmmm it reminds me someone....
are you the legendary "nulla puoi"?

bio

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:29 pm

orgak, nice bit of thread necromancy.

orgak · Post by **orgak** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:58 pm

Sorry Darkson - Looked at the March date and it didn't click that it was a year off.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:00 pm

Sorry, I meant to put a

at the bottom of that.

Dammit, my typing is crap today!