Introduction and questions.

[silverback_guerilla]

Hi, I'm a rookie BB coach - got sucked into it after hearing what a good game it was, read the LRB, seemed like a great game with well-written rules, and then bought a copy of the Third Ed on eBay...

Reading the posts on the forum (fascinating stuff) a couple of points surprised me.

1. You don't have to declare the die roll modifier for Mighty Blow before rolling the armour roll.

I am rather surprised by this - in most games I am used to, you declare everything that can modify the die roll before you roll it. I know that there is nothing in the LRB saying otherwise, but I assumed that you'd simply have to take your chances on missing the armour roll if you wanted to be more certain of inflicting injury. It seems to me that MB makes it significantly easier to inflict injuries, which seems bad. I know it's a violent sport, but still...

2. The consensus is that Rat Ogres are worthless because of Wild Animal. Because they must block, the opponent simply stacks four players against them and they get knocked on their butts when they must block.

Instead of using the Rat Ogre to support the Skaven, has anyone tried using the Skaven to support the Rat Ogre?

If I have a standing player adjacent to the Rat Ogre, it is impossible to have three players assist a blocker, since assisting players must not be in the tackle zone of an enemy player. (This ignores Guard and assumes the blocker has ST 3). There's three "untackled" squares, so only two assists are possible. If I have a Skaven Lineman standing directly behind my Rat Ogre, the blocker(s) will at best be able to equal his ST and roll one block die.

Of course, it's quite easy to remove a single player - just block him and either knock him over or push him back, and you're back to square one.

If, however, the Rat Ogre was in the front of a "pocket" or "cage" formation - let's call it a "Doomwheel" - it would be significantly harder to gang up on him. Of course, in this case the Skaven would play very differently- the Coach would need to think very differently to a regular Clan Rigens coach.

So, am I talking garbage?

[Longshot]

Welcome to this board.

1-I prefer saying it after even if i understand your point of vue. They reduce the power of MB but it must still be usefull.

2-good though.

but i would let the opponent and 3/4 of this players on my Rat Ogre, Like this i have an advantage on all the rest of the field

[DoubleSkulls]

The problem with RO's is that skaven don't tend to play much of a cage game and when the play spreads out you'll be hard pressed to leave enough line rats to cover the RO.

Remember your opponent knows the RO goes first so can always blitz line rats away from the RO to increase the odds of getting a 1/2 die block.

Ian

[silverback_guerilla]

I know that Skaven generally don't play a cage game; if you took a RO you'd have to play in more of an Orc style. Probably wouldn't work, since Orc linemen have AV9 to the rats' 7.

[Marcus]

Welcome aboard.

The problem with your "Support the Ratogre" strategy is all in the title, you have to free guys up to support the Ratogre. Any player who needs an additional 2-3 players to guard him is not pulling his own weight.

As of the most recent edition of BB, Skaven do have to play more of a running game and do use a Doomwheel style offence quite frequently, unfortunately, by virtue of the fact you have to move the Ratogre first, your options for a tight cage are very limited. He will almost always have to be the guy to make the blitz or he just gets left behind. Once you do blitz and roll through, you've left him vulnerable towards the back of the field as your cage streams through. If you hold back to defend him you're accentuating your weaknesses by staying on the pitch long enough to get hurt. If you run away and leave him behind, the opponent doesnt' bother trying to get the ball off you, he just forces 1/2 die blocks.

The main issue I (and others) have with Wild Animal is that the rules as they stand do not allow you to make any tactical decisions with respect to the Wild Animal in your own turn. The tactical decision (block or not block) is removed from the coach and left entirely in the hands of the opponent.

If a Skaven coach plays their natural game and runs fast and loose, the Ratogre will be exposed to situations where the opponent can choose to ignore the ball and just stack up on the Ratogre, if they try to defend the Ratogre to prevent this then they will be pulled out of their natural game and be at a significant disadvantage.

[Nermal]

yup, rat ogres are cool. but they do bring the double edged sword of wild animal.

there were 2 minataurs in our league this season and where my wild animal got (VERY) lucky and won block in his first game , the other had much trouble, he had an oponant who surrounded the min so that he was forced to make blocks against his advantage, (2 dice not in his favour) and suffered badly in his game. turnover after turn over. he got monstered so badly that he retired the min after the game, bad start to the league...