DE team development

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:45 am

I have been thinking a bit about how to further develop my dark elf squad. Thing is, in our league we get to start up teams at 120 tv + a free apothecary. This meant I started out with way more positionals then usual and obviously this now has the effect that my linemen are underdeveloped (also only 1 mvp in 6 games on a lineman). In the next few games my focus will have to shift to get those linemen spp's. Anyway this is the team: postion name - spp - skills gained (next skill to receive).

Blitzer - 14 spp - Dodge (Sidestep)
Blitzer - 14 spp - Mighty Blow (Dauntless)
Blitzer - 10 spp - Tackle (Dodge)
Blitzer - 22 spp - Strip Ball, Dodge (Jump Up)
Lineman - 6 spp - Guard (Dodge)
Lineman - 6 spp - Kick (Block)
Lineman - 0spp - -AV (he'll probably die before it gets to that)
Lineman - 0 spp - (Wrestle)
Lineman - 0 spp - (Wrestle)
Runner - 1 spp - (Pass)
Witch Elf - 14 spp - Block (Tackle)
Witch Elf - 8 spp - Block (Side Step)
Assassin - 6 spp - Dodge (Side Step)
Lineman - 0 spp - (Dirty Player)
I have 3 re-rolls.

Opponent teams are: Dark Elves, Necro, Wood Elves, Orcs, Skaven, Norse, Vampire, Nurgle, Amazons, Lizardmen (scary team!) and Dwarves. (teams can be viewed at: ( http://users.skynet.be/fb129021/index.htm )
Things I'm currently thinking about:
* Dauntless or Tackle next for blitzer with Mighty Blow?
* Runner should go for Pass, Accurate or Block, Sure Hands?
* In the event of doubles on a Witch Elf should I take Juggernaut (I think I'd choose this) or Mighty Blow?
* due to the amount of squishy teams maybe Block is better than Wrestle for the LOS-fodder linemen?

All other comments are also welcome of course.

mlindsay2706 · Post by **mlindsay2706** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:03 am

*Id go dauntless for the blitzer with mighty blow. its a great skill and its so useful. with block, mighty blow and dauntless he can even take on the st 4, 5, av 9 players and have a chance of getting them off the pitch or stunning them.

*Runner id defo go for block. sure hands/accurate/pass are nice, but if he's going to be going for TD's then block is what's needed i think, or he's going to take some hits. With 3 re-rolls and ag 4, sure hands is not such a nessasity atm, though id look to it being the next skill after block, with dodge in mind.

*Id go with Juggernaut. makes her that much harder to stop, plus they both have block/frenzy so ouch.

*from the teams you're facing id go for wrestle. there's some lower AV teams there, WE's, skaven, norse etc.. and wrestle is great to take down some of those amazon blitzers. there's some tough av teams like nurgle which means wreslte will be in their favor, but the last thing they want is to have their blockers going down to linemen, even if they do have a better injury chance. the wrestle/block is hard though. wrestle will be in your favor sometimes, and not others, though nurgle is the only team there with a better av on most players, though only on 5 players, and even lizzies have the skinks. id go for wrestle - its going to be in your favor alot, and equal other times e.g. wresltle with the other DE team, same av.

Kheldar · Post by **Kheldar** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:22 am

[quote="mlindsay2706*from the teams you're facing id go for wrestle. there's some lower AV teams there, WE's, skaven, norse etc.. and wrestle is great to take down some of those amazon blitzers. there's some tough av teams like nurgle which means wreslte will be in their favor, but the last thing they want is to have their blockers going down to linemen, even if they do have a better injury chance. the wrestle/block is hard though. wrestle will be in your favor sometimes, and not others, though nurgle is the only team there with a better av on most players, though only on 5 players, and even lizzies have the skinks. id go for wrestle - its going to be in your favor alot, and equal other times e.g. wresltle with the other DE team, same av.[/quote]

No armor rolls are made, if wrestle is used. So AV is not really of interested, when choosing wrestle or not. Did I miss something?

fen · Post by **fen** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:22 am

I'd take Tackle for the Blitzer myself, mostly because of the composition of the teams in your league. Dauntless would only be of use against about 25 or so players in the league, and a lot of those are only ST4.
Secondly,
I prefer having a Block, Dauntless Lineman normally as I don't really want to send a Blitzer in against high ST players.

As for taking Wrestle, it's not so hot on DE linemen. They're a bit slow, so you probably only want 2-3 of them. (Wrestle, Dodge, Fend is ace.)

Take Mighty Blow on the WEs imo, that's what one coach did in our league. His WEs were fantastic (one even got PO on a second doubles - Block, Jump Up, Frenzy, MB, PO...

)

No clue about the runner tbh, I'm not so keen on them at the moment. I'm going through a phase of "what the hell do I do with this guy?"

mlindsay2706 · Post by **mlindsay2706** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:13 am

Kheldar wrote:No armor rolls are made, if wrestle is used. So AV is not really of interested, when choosing wrestle or not. Did I miss something?

no sorry, no Armor roll is made

hmm

block then maybe. id do what fen suggested - wrestle on 2 or 3, and block on the rest pherhaps?

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:33 am

Ok, some interesting thoughts. Wrestle would be restricted to 2 linemen of course: front line duty + cage harassers. I doubt they would ever make it to 3 skills though.

Not sure where to go with the runner though. Dump Off is a pretty useless skill to count on IMO (haven't used it yet as I prefer to put him in positions where he can't get hit), he does have MA 7 which is good as DE's can use the speed but the AV 7 sucks big time without blodge. Since I very rarely give passes longer then short I think I'd best go with Block/Sure Hands so he can be of use on defence and is good for running the ball versus leaping strip ballers.
For the blitzer, Fen is kinda right that I won't need dauntless that often yet, at least untill those high STR players start picking up break tackle (none yet so far). I'll probably try to build a wrestle/dauntless lineman. Actually I think that combo is better than block/dauntless since high STR players are high AV players too, so chances of breaking armour are slim anyway. One-die blocks then have a better chance of getting that menace out of the way (which usually is all you need).

fen · Post by **fen** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:47 pm

Yeah, you're right about Wrestle + Dauntless. That does seem better than Block + Dauntless for removing irritating high ST players. I'm going to have to remember to do it that way.

And I think you can get a Wrestle + Dauntless Lineman before the ST players set themselves up with Break Tackle.

kharnagex · Post by **kharnagex** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:48 am

I like getting kick and 2 dirty players as quick as possible. This is lineman progression, obviously.

We are just about done with our last season of Lrb4 and are moving to Pbbl next season. Really excited about Pbbl dark elves.

Dump off on the runners looks tasty. Its not a skill you should rely on, but its nice to have against, like you said leaping strip ballers.

Also looking forward to assassins. Anyone play with them yet, they worth getting to start. I'm thinking not, as you can't get spp for them, but stab is nasty.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:39 am

kharnagex wrote: Also looking forward to assassins. Anyone play with them yet, they worth getting to start. I'm thinking not, as you can't get spp for them, but stab is nasty.

Sure you can skill them, they just don't get spp's from stabbing people. They can still skill through eg scoring td's. They're medium usefull IMO, I only take 1. I think they're more of a psychological weapon then anything else vs some teams (our skaven player is still having nightmares of my assassin though

).

kharnagex · Post by **kharnagex** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:20 pm

Yeah, you can skill them up, but who would pass up a straight armor roll instead of having a chcance to send him down.

I can see its going to be hard for me to skill up assassins. LOL

Kheldar · Post by **Kheldar** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:23 pm

kharnagex wrote:Yeah, you can skill them up, but who would pass up a straight armor roll instead of having a chcance to send him down.

I can see its going to be hard for me to skill up assassins. LOL

Touchdowns? Completions? MVP? There are enough possibilities.

Rannekin NightLust · Post by **Rannekin NightLust** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:56 pm

What about leap? Anyone use that on a blitzer?

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:12 am

update, 2 more games played and the team looks like this:
Blitzer - 20 spp - Dodge, Sidestep (Diving Tackle)
Blitzer - 21 spp - Mighty Blow, Tackle (Dodge)
Blitzer - 10 spp - Tackle (Dodge)
Blitzer - 22 spp - Strip Ball, Dodge (Jump Up)
Lineman - 6 spp - Guard (Dodge)
Lineman - 11 spp - Kick (Block)
Lineman - 0spp - -AV (he'll probably die before it gets to that)
Lineman - 8 spp - Wrestle (Dauntless)
Lineman - 0 spp - (Wrestle)
Runner - 1 spp - (Pass)
Witch Elf - 16 spp - Block, Mighty Blow (Tackle)
Witch Elf - 12 spp - Block (Diving Tackle)
Assassin - 6 spp - Dodge (Side Step)
Lineman - 0 spp - (Dirty Player)
I have 3 re-rolls.

2 more games played but I've only been able to skill up 1 rookie lineman. Blitzers gained a few skills and the witch elf got mighty blow, that should allow me to dominate vs squishy teams which are abundant in our league. Linemen are also becoming easy targets for my opponents now as they have no skills.
2 tacklers so far but future development is still geared towards beating down dodgy teams, I have noticed that I really need some diving tackle in there to bolster my defence.
Could really have used dauntless in the last game as that Rat Ogre was really messing up my game plan last night. I lucked out by injuring it on a half-die block with my wrestle lineman though.

I haven't lost in my last 5 games and the only damage to my team so far is 2 dead skill-less linemen so I'm doing pretty good.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:08 pm

update, 16 games played (wins: 11, draws: 3, losses 2) and the team looks like this, the next planned upgrade is between parentheses:
Blitzer - 44 spp - Dodge, Sidestep, Diving Tackle (???)
Blitzer - 42 spp - Mighty Blow, Tackle, Dodge (Side Step)
Blitzer - 33 spp - Tackle, Dodge, Side Step (Sure Hands)
Blitzer - 45 spp - Strip Ball, Dodge, Mighty Blow (Leap)
Lineman - 6 spp - Guard (Dodge)
Lineman - 23 spp - Kick, Block (Dodge)
Lineman - 5 spp - (Dodge)
Lineman - 8 spp - Wrestle, Guard (Dodge)
Lineman - 7 spp - Block (Fend)
Runner - 9 spp - +MA (Pass)
Witch Elf - 23 spp - Block, Mighty Blow (Tackle)
Witch Elf - 24 spp - Block, Side Step, -MA (Diving Tackle)
Assassin - 9 spp - Dodge (Side Step)

I have 3 re-rolls, an apo, 150 k in the bank and 11 fan factor.
Team Value is 199 .

I haven't lost in 12 games and won my last 8.

So far the conclusion is elves with strength skills are very nasty! I've caught more then one bash team off guard and outbashed them! You don't really need stat increases (I only have 1, +MA on the runner) as long as you roll those doubles!
The strength skills allow you to dominate a game, taking the initiative and controlling the clock, while you still have your high AG to fall back on to force a quick TD.
When I started getting some more side step my defence improved drastically: I have only conceded 4 in the last 8 games.

I still have some weaknesses, but I think a few more skills can help there.
1) a high strength cage (like Khemri does) can give me trouble, guard is good for breaking cages of players of up to str 4 but without dauntless I'll run into some problems.
2) weakness to strip ball: you can only control the clock if you can reliably hold on to the ball. Vs strip balling wood elves I'm in trouble. I need sure hands somewhere
3) weakness to pile one: pile on/mighty blow/tackle/block players can wreak havoc on this team. I really need some fending linemen.

How would you further develop this team?
Are there other weaknesses I haven't seen yet?

Da_Great_MC · Post by **Da_Great_MC** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:01 pm

I see one major weakness: you can't play a reliable passing game. Which should be the number one offensive strategy for Dark Elves.

Develop your Runner. I think you should give Accurate first, then Pass.

As for other skills, I try to get as many Block-Dodge-Sidestep players as possible and I almost always give Guard on doubles.

Good luck Gert