Advice for Orc-Team development

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:12 pm

PubBowler wrote:You choose Dirty Player first. His role and positioning is very different from a Guard lineman. So I'd "stick to your knitting" and go with Sneaky Git.

But I wouldn't have chosen Dirty Player in the first place...

In retrospective I also wouldn't take it again - Dirty Player hasn't been a very effective skill

. Fouling no longer is what it used to be, esp. with DP. But I didn't know it back then and now I'm smarter

. Now I rarely foul, only when the Ref "was gotten" or the target is really worth it (Gutterrunner/Wardancer/etc). But I'm not too unhappy and with Guard he could at least make himself usefull while waiting for a good opportunity to kick someone in the head

.

voyagers_uk wrote:Strip Ball on the Blitzer; Guard on the LO

sneaky git could work, just not sold either

Hmm, Strip Ball... Interesting, but atm I feel I'm really lacking in the Guard-department, the Chaos and Chaos Dwarf team in my league both already have 6 Guard-players

, the Khemri 3. I'm really starting to be "outstrengthed".

Cheers

Tante KÃ¤the

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:10 pm

Sneaky git - foul with him every turn and don't use the DP to break armour if you'd get sent off...

Frenzy blitzer I'd give mighty blow although you are low on guard.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:05 pm

Guard on Blitzer, Sneaky Git on the DP Line Orc.

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:27 am

I'm still not sold on Sneaky Git. On a foul against someone with AV8 and let's say 2 assists it saves me from being sent off on a double 1 and double 2 -> that's a 5,5% chance for being saved by SG (i.e. chance to be sent-off after the AV-roll are 11,1%, w/o SG it's 16,6%). If I followed Ian's advice not to use DP on a double3 in the example above the chances to be "saved" by SG are 8,3% (i.e. chance to be sent off after the AV-roll are 8,3%).

I hope my basic math on this is right but I just can't see the value of of using a "30K"-double to take this skill esp. since Guard works all the time, even in your opponents turn.

Cheers

Tante KÃ¤the

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:13 am

Because you have a 100k player who fouls every turn (don't worry much about assists).

So every turn he either does not get sent off (so what) or gets an injury roll at +1 (so a 58.3% chance of getting your target off the pitch - vs somewhere around 25% chance of getting sent off. That's a 2:1 trade which looks pretty good in my book - and makes it worth hitting anyone worth more than 50k.

The point about SG is that it lets you foul every turn without worrying about assists - so its not that its risk free - its just much better odds without any assists so means you'll foul more and get better use from DP.

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:44 am

Thanks Ian,

that's the kind of explanation I was looking for

. I haven't looked at it this way, I was only thinking that with SG I have a 25% chance to be sent off after a successfull foul compared to 31% without SG which in itself doesn't look too great.

But if I just foul every turn without having to move in assists (if they are available it's fine

) and only to be sent off if the foul was successfull doesn't look too bad.

Thanks to everyone for the discussion

Tante KÃ¤the

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:30 am

Short update,

I went for Guard on the Blitzer and Sneaky Git on the DP-Lineorc. Having a 100K-player specialized on fouling will force me using him to his fullest extend - I'll let you know how it went.

Thanks for your help

Tante KÃ¤the

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:06 am

OK,

a short update (for those who are interested

) and maybe you can comment on my next planned skill choices.

After losing 6 out of the first 7 games my Orcs are now on an incredible winning streak (winning 7 out of 9) and have made it into the finals of our league tournament

.

The team now looks like this, my planned three new updates are in [brackets]

Troll - Guard (13 SPP)
Blitzer - Tackle, Mighty Blow, [Piling On]
Blitzer - Jump Up, +MA, Mighty Blow
Blitzer - Frenzy, Guard, [Mighty Blow]
Blitzer - Dodge, +MA
Black Orc - Block, +MA
Black Orc - Guard
Black Orc - Block
Black Orc - Guard
Goblin - nothing
Thrower - Kick Off Return
Line Orc - Sure Hands, [Block or Kick]
Line Orc - Dirty Player, Sneaky Git
TV 186, 4 RR, 9 FF, 1 AC, 1 CL, 290.000 treasury

I'm pretty certain about PO and MB on the two Blitzers but for the SH Linorc I'm torn between Block and Kick. My opponent in the finals will be a very nasty Khemri team (I've already lost thrice against them

) with a MA7 AG3 thrower and another MA7 thrower.

Cheers

Tante Käthe

P.S. The Sneaky Git/Dirty Player Linorc works very well, I have not regretted takin SG yet.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:28 am

Tante Kaethe wrote:OK,

Troll - Guard (13 SPP)
Blitzer - Tackle, Mighty Blow, [Piling On]
Blitzer - Jump Up, +MA, Mighty Blow
Blitzer - Frenzy, Guard, [Mighty Blow]
Blitzer - Dodge, +MA
Black Orc - Block, +MA
Black Orc - Guard
Black Orc - Block
Black Orc - Guard
Goblin - nothing
Thrower - Kick Off Return
Line Orc - Sure Hands, [Block or Kick]
Line Orc - Dirty Player, Sneaky Git
TV 186, 4 RR, 9 FF, 1 AC, 1 CL, 290.000 treasury

Not sure why you took Sure Hands on a line Orc. You could have just fired him and bought a Thrower which already has SH. Plus you get Pass and more movement. So it really made no sense to take it.

Having said that, taking kick wouldn't make much sense since you'll be off the line and far from the ball (so it wastes sure hands). Personally, I think it's a better decision to sack him and buy a thrower.

But I will say that Piling On is perfect for a Tackle player since you'll be going after stunties and amazons a lot with this guy and PO will ensure lots of casualties. The only problem is that PO won't help you as much with Khemri (but you never know when it'll come in handy)

I do love your choice with JU on the blitzer though. It's an underused skill and really catches coaches off guard. Super choice there.

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:22 am

Hi datalorex, thanks for you comments

datalorx wrote:Not sure why you took Sure Hands on a line Orc. You could have just fired him and bought a Thrower which already has SH. Plus you get Pass and more movement. So it really made no sense to take it.

I took SH early when 3 players died in the first 2 games and I couldn't buy any thrower. But I'm happy with him, and btw. he has the same MA as a thrower and AV9. So infact it's a "trade" of +AV against "Pass", not too bad IMO. And he has made many TDs and recovered the ball in many bad situations, being in the middle of the scrum.

datalorex wrote:Having said that, taking kick wouldn't make much sense since you'll be off the line and far from the ball (so it wastes sure hands). Personally, I think it's a better decision to sack him and buy a thrower.

In order to use the Kick skill you may not be standing on the LOS or in the widezones - that's where she's standing on defense. So this skill could work for her.

And yes, I'm quite happy with Jump Up on the Blitzers, he had many extra Blocks with it an with MA7 he has great mobility.

Cheers

Tante Käthe

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:43 pm

Tante Kaethe wrote:Hi datalorex, thanks for you comments
datalorx wrote:Not sure why you took Sure Hands on a line Orc. You could have just fired him and bought a Thrower which already has SH. Plus you get Pass and more movement. So it really made no sense to take it.
I took SH early when 3 players died in the first 2 games and I couldn't buy any thrower. But I'm happy with him, and btw. he has the same MA as a thrower and AV9. So infact it's a "trade" of +AV against "Pass", not too bad IMO. And he has made many TDs and recovered the ball in many bad situations, being in the middle of the scrum.
datalorex wrote:Having said that, taking kick wouldn't make much sense since you'll be off the line and far from the ball (so it wastes sure hands). Personally, I think it's a better decision to sack him and buy a thrower.
In order to use the Kick skill you may not be standing on the LOS or in the widezones - that's where she's standing on defense. So this skill could work for her.

And yes, I'm quite happy with Jump Up on the Blitzers, he had many extra Blocks with it an with MA7 he has great mobility.

Cheers

Tante Käthe

Oops, I was thinking the passer had one more MV than the lineorcs. But even at that, I would fire the lineorc and hire a thrower. Here's why:
1. The Thrower has access to Passing Skills.
2. It gives you a backup thrower.
3. It saves you 20 thou in TV (lineorc with 2 skills = 90 thou; Thrower = 70 thou)
4. You'll need 15 SPP to skill up your lineorc. You only need 6 to skill up the Thrower.
5. You have the extra cash.

The only downside is that you lose one AV. That's five positives vs. one negative. It won't take long for that Thrower to skill up and then you can give it block or kick (it then becomes your defensive thrower)

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:22 pm

Hi datalorex,

thanks again for making your point

. I can see where you're coming from but I don't agree that it's better to fire her and to buy a thrower. The TV is not an issue, in fact it's the same TV when you compare her with two skills against a thrower with one skill, the only difference is the Pass skill and Pass skill access against AV9. And, tbh I don't pass the ball, not even in turns 8 and 16 because that's when I try TTM

. And AV9 is tough, she's normally still around on the field when the whistle blows and the smoke clears

... And she deserves to be in the team, she won me at least 3 games when there was no RR left and somebody needed to pick up the ball and run it into the endzone in turn 16

.

But thanks for your input, I really appreciate it! So, still the question whether to take Block or Kick (but leaning to Kick now).

Cheers

Tante Käthe.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:25 pm

Tante Kaethe wrote:Hi datalorex,

thanks again for making your point . I can see where you're coming from but I don't agree that it's better to fire her and to buy a thrower. The TV is not an issue, in fact it's the same TV when you compare her with two skills against a thrower with one skill, the only difference is the Pass skill and Pass skill access against AV9. And, tbh I don't pass the ball, not even in turns 8 and 16 because that's when I try TTM . And AV9 is tough, she's normally still around on the field when the whistle blows and the smoke clears ... And she deserves to be in the team, she won me at least 3 games when there was no RR left and somebody needed to pick up the ball and run it into the endzone in turn 16 .

But thanks for your input, I really appreciate it! So, still the question whether to take Block or Kick (but leaning to Kick now).

Cheers

Tante Käthe.

You're obviously sympathetic toward the lineorc with SH, so keep it (why do you refer to it as a 'her' anyway?). So in that case, I'd pick block so you can blitz the ball carrier with the lineorc and pick up the ball as you move over it. And it makes it harder to get the ball from the lineorc once it picks up the ball.

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:06 pm

datalorex wrote:You're obviously sympathetic toward the lineorc with SH, so keep it (why do you refer to it as a 'her' anyway?).

That's true, I'm sympathetic to her but I'm still convinced that it's not only affection but also some reason behind it

. And as to why I'm referring to "her", here's a picture:

It's a Shadowforge female Orc team, if you're interested you can find more pictures here: viewtopic.php?t=22095&highlight=temptationz

Cheers

Tante Käthe
[/quote]

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:58 am

Those pics are incredible! I wish I could paint like that!