Not developing Linemen?

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:50 pm

Has anyone deliberately tried to keep their TV down by not developing linemen and relying on a few many skilled positionals in a team? And have you had much success?

Under LRB4, it was very beneficial to spread the SPP love, but now as all skills add at least 20k to a players value, would it be better to have a few well developed blitzers, catchers and throwers and just having skilless linos to get in the way and get hit?

This would probably only really be a viable tactic for elven teams, but it could possibly work for other teams-say Nurgle, just develop the Beast, warriors and a pestigor (or 2)?

What do yous think?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:25 pm

I think 20k is often a really good deal for taking the skill of your choice on a lineman. If I could get an Orc lino with Block for 70k on the starting roster, I'd start with three every time. When compared to 0.4 Bloodweiser Babes or 0.2 extra re-rolls, it also ends up looking good.

I could see an argument for not developing all your linos with an elfy team, but you'd want to skill up at least the first few, so you have a Kick guy and maybe some other useful stuff in a mostly unskilled toolbox (effectively increasing the number of positionals you get to develop). In that case, if you don't want to spread the SPP love, start with a Thrower or two and play a conventional passing game. You'd also want to take advantage of doubles; a Guard lino gives you more of an edge than anybody's likely to get on 30k in incentives, and a Leader is an objectively (much) better buy than an extra re-roll, whether out of cash or inducements.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:00 pm

I think it depends on the race as to whether or not that's a good idea.

For orcs, I never get the line orcs involved. They end up on the bench most of the time anyway once your team gets going. Skeletons and Zombies are filler, and so skilling them up isn't really all that vital. Just having them Regen is nice. Skaven line rats are largely filler, but it's nice to get one or two of them skilled up a little, having 3 with block at least would be ideal for putting on the line so they have at least SOMEWHAT of a chance...

For other teams, getting the linemen skilled up is vital. I'd point to Amazons as a prime example. Having a whole team with block and dodge is a key to their success. Dwarven longbeards are important to build up with stuff like Guard, Mighty Blow, and Stand Firm. Hobgoblins on Chaos Dwarf teams are important to skill up. Elf teams spend so much on their line elves, they need them to be good. Chaos teams rely on their Beastmen to be competent. And so on.

So, I'd say, for MOST teams, it's important to allow the linemen to skill up at least some. The degree depends on race.

Meradanis · Post by **Meradanis** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:36 pm

Our Chaos Dwarf player does not skill up his Hobgoblins. Some lucky CAS against one or two of his Blockers/Bullcentaurs, and he is in real trouble. His Hobgoblins are nearly worthless, because I could even bring them down with 2 dice against me.

For all of the Elf teams, skilled lineman are a must have, because they'll be as good as many positionals of other teams. I'd try to gain at least 1 skill with every lineman regardless of the race, 2 won't hurt either. There are many good skills for lineman besides Block, like Kick, Dirty Player, Leader (Double), Guard, Diving Tackle etc.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:54 pm

I don't know... half of my Necro team is Zombies (6) and I rely on them heavily.... The Guard Zombie and the two Dauntless-Block Zombies are invaluable for holding the line against bigger/tougher opponents.... One of the others has Kick... waiting to see if the last two will contribute....

Gotta agree that I'm not gonna sit drooling waiting for any of them to go up again... it's sooooo sloooooooooow getting SPP on a 3 ST, low AG player.... Once they all have block, cept for the kicker who I'd like to give leader to (pray for doubles), I'll be happy....

Little_Rat · Post by **Little_Rat** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:38 am

I rarely skill up my linemen. Why sould I? Okay, sometimes they got a cas or player of the day or something like that, but I try to do the neccesary thing with the best possible player. When there´s a pass to throw, I throw it with my thrower. When there´s a Touchdown to do, I give the ball to the player most likely to get it through. Only 1 or 2 Linemen gets their developement, mostly for kick block, but I try to prevent more waisting of SSP ^^

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:29 pm

Generally you are better off spreading skills around - just because you don't want to be too reliant on a couple of players to win games - since if you are they inevitably end up getting injured.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:48 pm

Gotta agree with Ian for the most part... it's the lynchpin of the Necromancer team.... I have played 20 games with this team and all of the TDs are from 3 of the 4 (truly) positional players... 24 from the Weres and 8 from one of the Wights.... In various games I have been down a Wight or a Were... but if I'm ever down multiple positionals (really, even two) then I'm not sure how I'm supposed to deal with it.... Zombies and Golems ain't gonna score!

Consequently, most of the SPPs are on a few players:

Weres: 76 and 62
Wights: 36 and 28
Golems: 5 and 15 (one got replaced recently)
Zombies: 0, 7, 9, 19, 22 (9 MVPs in this group; 3 & 4 MVPs on the highest)

Yeah, it's a spiffy-tough team... 13 wins 4 ties and 3 losses... but if the winds of fortune ever run foul... and those few high SPP players get hurt (or worse)... it's a different story....

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:39 pm

I'm amazed to hear about a CD team that doesn't skill up its Hobbos. Hobbos with a couple skill-ups can be total game-changers; the positionals are total bruisers, so the fact that the Hobbos are average ball-carriers makes them SPP hounds, and with a couple of skill bumps they get to be pretty good.

I don't know; I think against a good stompy coach, your team is about as good as your second-stringers, and against a good finesse coach, your team is as good as the least of your starters. Either way, a good coach will find a way to make you lose the game unless you can shine with your B players, and that's a lot easier if they have skill-ups.

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:35 am

Thanks all.

I suppose I was thinking about two scoring teams playing each other(currently playing a game with Woodies against Skaven). And if the drives are over in 2 turns, the only players who really get to do anything are the stars. Linos will just be on the LOS, or be used to mark players, so don't really do much and don't need too many skills (although tackle/diving tackle would be useful).

Playing against bash teams means the drives will last longer and all players will be doing something and the more skills they have, the better they'll perform. And it's likely that at least some of one's better players would get KO'd or worse, so you want your second string to at least be effective.