Dark Elves/Lizardmen

Zoot · Post by **Zoot** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:54 pm

Hey everyone, this here is my first post on these boards. A number of friends and I have started up another Blood Bowl league and I've been debating on the team I would like to go with. In a previous league with them I had played Dark Elves, unfortunately the season fell apart after only 4 or so games (the DE had won all of the games they played in that short time). I've always been a fan of Dark Elves and I like their play, however the Lizards have always caught my attention as well, and I am perhaps interested in going that route.

We are using LRB5 and each team is granted 2 skills (one skill for two separate players) - essentially we are starting with an extra 40,000gp. So I suppose this would be treated as a 1,040,000gp league. The teams thus far are: Chaos, High Elves, Orcs, Nurgle (may change), Skaven, Necromancers, and Khemri. Clearly it's a bashy league for the most part, which makes me lean towards the DE just to be able to capitalize on that. It's an open league so we play games when we choose against any other team, but we can not play the same team more than two times in a row.

I've read much on the new Dark Elves (we had previously played LRB4) and I was thinking of starting with something like:
4 Blitzers
7 Linemen
2 RR
1 FF
I used to do 2 Blitzers, 9 Linemen, 2 RR, and 7FF, but I'm intrigued by the possibility of rolling with a low FF these days.

If I were to go with the Lizardmen, I was thinking:
6 Saurus
5 Skinks
3 RR
4 FF

I'm sort of at a loss as to what to choose for the two skills we are granted for either team. Does anyone have any suggestions? Also if anyone has any pros/cons for choosing either team with this league format, then please share them. In the end I may just end up starting one now and going with a second team later (since a few of us have been thinking of starting 2 teams). Thanks everyone, I appreciate it!

Super Nashwan · Post by **Super Nashwan** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:05 pm

with both of those teams, i'd perhaps take the 12th man
2 Bz
10 L
2 RR
100

5 Sa
7 Sk
3 RR
100

Grogmir · Post by **Grogmir** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:34 pm

I prefer your's (Zoots) DE line-up.
4 Blitzers, 7 Line.

BUT with the additional two skills I may be tempted to change one out for a Witch Elf and get her block (plus Dodge on a Blitzer). Otherwise I would get the 1st line up and 2 Blitzers with Dodge.

As for Lizard men - not really sure, really different team to use and may get out bashed in that league.

Grogmir.

Quadrasonic · Post by **Quadrasonic** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:21 pm

If you go with Lizardmen, put your bonus two skills on the Sauri. The Skinks will be gaining SPP quicker than your other team members once you start playing. They also tend to die a lot sooner than your other players, so dodge them away as often as you can and don't get too attached.

Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the bashyness. As long as they are not all starting with Tackle, you should be able to hold your own with the big lizards and outscore them with the little ones.

It is an interesting idea starting a league team with skilled players. Unbalanced perhaps, but interesting. I wonder if the players you give the skills to start with 0 or 6 SPP. If they start with 0 SPP those two can really become superstars very quickly.

Zoot · Post by **Zoot** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:49 pm

Quadrasonic wrote: It is an interesting idea starting a league team with skilled players. Unbalanced perhaps, but interesting. I wonder if the players you give the skills to start with 0 or 6 SPP. If they start with 0 SPP those two can really become superstars very quickly.

I myself am unsure how I feel about the bonus skills. Like you, I do find it interesting however. Currently, to my understanding those players will be starting with 0 SPP.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:52 pm

I like Nashwan's Lizards and Zoot's DEs. Lizards rely on AV7 little guys, so the extra player is very valuable. They probably will get out-bashed a bit, but I don't know that it's necessarily a huge deal; as long as you can keep 2-3 Skinks and 4 Sauri on the field, you can provide a threat. Hell, once they get below 6-7 guys, an elf team can't provide a threat either, and they can't afford to start with a 12th man if they like their player quality.

I think 4 Blitzers/Witches on a DE team is a great idea. Blitzers have two of the better improvements that an elf lineman can take (+MA and Block), and for two of those, it's worth being man-down (or just one less man-up) at some point in the match; hell, it'll count for the extra man, as your guys knock down better, are a little harder to blitz, and you have four guys who can score from off the line in two turns without a GFI. That in turn will help you score, and scoring saves lives. Witches with Block are of course a blast, as well, and the fact that you can only afford one of them isn't such a bad thing; she's a huge target, but she's useful, not as vulnerable as she looks, and can make a big difference. It's a league, right? So you're making winnings? If so, save up and buy another Witch Elf as soon as you can.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:53 pm

Zoot wrote: I myself am unsure how I feel about the bonus skills. Like you, I do find it interesting however. Currently, to my understanding those players will be starting with 0 SPP.

That's broken. Yeesh. OK, go Dark Elves, get a Witch with Block and a Blitzer with Dodge, and go to town.

How long is the season?

Jeremiah Kool · Post by **Jeremiah Kool** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:06 pm

For real? I can´t imagine that someone meant it like this.

Even if it´s not that way with the SPP, by all means take two Witch Elves with Block. Who´s going to stop "rookie"-Witch Elves with Block/Dodge?

I´d go with two Witches (Block), a Blitzer, a Runner (get Leader later), 7 x Lineman, 2 x RR, 1 x Cheerleader. Don´t waste your money on FF, get Assistant Coaches / Cheerleaders or save your money for the next purchase (Apothecary).

Zoot · Post by **Zoot** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:41 pm

Jeremiah Kool wrote:For real? I can´t imagine that someone meant it like this.

All of us players in the league are pretty much newcomers, and unfortunately I do not think anyone is aware of the consequences of having such a system. I plan on bringing this up with the others and the commissioner to determine if this ruling will stay. They are a stubborn bunch however, and I am sure I will insight a riot. Hurrah?

As for the length of the season I don't think that has been officially determined. From my understanding of what was said, it is pretty much an ongoing league with tournaments spread throughout. Sometime in the future there will be an "end of season tournament", but I do not know if that has been addressed yet. I will be talking to the others tonight to try to get a better understanding.

Truth be told I hadn't joined the league until after their season was underway (I believe they had only played 1 or 2 games at most thus far). So I'm not completely aware of how they've been operating as of yet. It's just a friendly league between my friends and I and we are planning on meeting up multiple times a week to bang out as many games as we can fit in it seems.

I apologize for not providing adequate information as I have only been quickly briefed, but I will be sure to repost after the discussions.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:20 pm

Is there a fixed schedule? If so, see if you and other latecomers can be allowed a couple additional "challenges" to build up your TV. (Or is that why you get the extra skills?)

If you think that it's going to be a big hassle to suggest that their rules are broken, then what you might do is bring it up so everyone hears it, and then when the fireworks start, back down and say something about seeing how it turns out and if you should change it for the next season. In a very short season, the free increase at 0 SPP won't be so bad; it'll feel like 3rd edition progression, which was lots of fun over 5 or 7 games. In a long season, maybe it is better to get two Witch Elves with Block and show them, rather than telling them, why it's such a horrible idea to let players have extra skills-of-choice without SPP progression.

Heh heh heh; score early and often and try to get 2 TDs on each Witch Elf, and by match 3, you can have two Block/Dodge/Side Step/Jump Up/Frenzy players. Now THAT's annoying.

I do think that the idea of teams being able to start with a skill is kind of cool (though I'd make it one skill rather than two), but I think it should come in the form of a player with 6 SPP.

Zoot · Post by **Zoot** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:31 pm

Schedule is not fixed. Our previous season was, and while it was fun, we were often missing at least 1 person each week, which really through everything off. Those people who showed up to play a game later found out they were going to be sitting there watching everyone else play. We play as many games as we want and against whoever is available when we want to play, however you can not play more than 2 games in a row with the same person.

I agree with your thoughts on it being based on 6 SPP, as that was originally what I had thought. I later discovered that we're essentially "buying" the skills (20,000gp a pop), as such we were given an extra 40,000gp to start with. Everyone received the skill bonus, not just latecomers.

While I love the idea of starting with Witch Elves, I'm afraid of not having my linemen develop as I will have a tendency to fall back on the witches. But at the same time, as you've already said, it's pretty much impossible to give up on the opportunity to have 2 Witch Elves with Block right out of the gate.

Zoot · Post by **Zoot** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:02 pm

This may change to a 6 SPP situation instead of a 0spp one without "buying" the skills. If that were the case, would the best bet for Dark Elves anyway be to stick with throwing block onto 2 witches, dodge onto Blitzers, or specializing a pair of linemen?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:54 am

Zoot wrote:This may change to a 6 SPP situation instead of a 0spp one without "buying" the skills. If that were the case, would the best bet for Dark Elves anyway be to stick with throwing block onto 2 witches, dodge onto Blitzers, or specializing a pair of linemen?

In that case, and since almost everyone else has already set their teams... how much Tackle is there out there?

Maybe a WE with Block, three Blitzers, a Line-Elf w/Kick, and six Line-Elves.

Alternately, you could take:
4 Blitzers
Runner w/Leader
WE w/Block
5 Linos
1 RR
Assuming you can keep your Runner in the game, you essentially get two upgrades, one of which is clearly better than a lineman with a skill, to linemen at the expense of one of your skills.

Zoot · Post by **Zoot** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:26 pm

I've been informed that it will stay at 0spp for the time being and we'll see how it turns out. Fancy that. So I suppose it is time to lay on the hurt with a pair of Witch Elves.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:51 am

Zoot wrote:I've been informed that it will stay at 0spp for the time being and we'll see how it turns out. Fancy that. So I suppose it is time to lay on the hurt with a pair of Witch Elves.

Go to town, dude!

I guess if everyone gets the benefit... even still. Two Dwarf Blockers with Guard? Who needs Black Orcs? Except, I guess, that you can get two Black Orcs with Block... yeesh. That changes the strategy a lot, but at least there are a lot of winners with those rules.