Orcs vs Next Opponent Tactics

[DoubleSkulls]

I'd buy the BOB before the blitzer. I'd be tempted to buy the troll before the BOB too, if not then after the BOB and blitzer.

BOBs skill up slower, so need to be in the team longer to get progression. Against another Orc team the extra strength will probably be more important too.

The thing with Orc throwers is that I try to develop one to pass and one to run. The runner goes Block & KoR and gets dodge on doubles. The passer goes accurate & safe throw and strong arm on doubles. NoS, Leader, Dump Off are all a long way down the list for me. Normally if you are in a situation where NoS comes into play you can just hand off to a blitzer/line orc who isn't in zones anyway.

[Big Daddy]

I'm pretty meh about the troll to be honest. If/when I take one he will only take to the pitch on drives where I receive the kick. On defense I prefer not to load up on MA4 and especially not on someone who will cash in his TZ about 20% of the time. When my other BoBs skill to block my -1MA guy will get the chop. I might take a troll at that point.

I think this is one of the things I like best about Orcs, you can play them in quite a few formats - straight bash, balanced game or madcap with plenty of gobbo's and with variations on each type. I don't think there is any "right" (or "righter"?? ) way to play them as they are pretty solid all rounders.

I tend to play my teams all about recovering the ball on defence and scoring. In fact I generally think a lot more about playing defence than offence. All things being equal if I win the game I'm going to kick the ball at least one more time than I receive. With any luck I'll only receive once and kick plenty I prefer to get the ball in my hands rather than try to simply hold the opposing team up. Going too heavy on the MA4 guys limits your options to transition into offense in my opinion. After six league matches I have conceded 2 TD and scored 13 back the other way so my theory is working so far for me.

Of course my sum of Orc experience is about 9 games so perhaps I have just got off to a good/lucky start going 8-1-0 (5-1-0 in league play). My opinions will most likely change as the league teams all start making higher TV in the future too. I think the average is around the 1250 mark at the moment. Maybe at higher levels I will struggle to get the ball loose and need a more strength oriented strategy. I have an open mind to changing strategies, after all I like to win but I come from a "don't fix what ain't broke" school of thought to some extent.

[mattgslater]

See to me, the Troll is a purely defensive model, a nose-man flanked by BOBs on either side. If I can help it, I don't field the Troll at all when receiving. But there are many ways to skin a squig.

[Big Daddy]

Hehe. I guess that just reinforces my point about the variety of methodologies to get the result. I know that my personal preference on defence is to have reliability. If I win the toss I will almost invariably kick. This way I know I'll have 11 players to defend with (barring pitch invasion etc) for at least 1 drive.

I understand that I am very inexperienced compared to most of the posters. Perhaps my ideas won't hold up over the longer term or against a different/broader playing group, I don't know the answer to that but I'm having fun at the moment.

I appreciate the input guys, even when it seems as though I'm ignoring it, I'm taking it all in. So cheers to you all

[SillySod]

Hehe. I guess that just reinforces my point about the variety of methodologies to get the result. I know that my personal preference on defence is to have reliability. If I win the toss I will almost invariably kick. This way I know I'll have 11 players to defend with (barring pitch invasion etc) for at least 1 drive.

One of the many good reasons for kicking first, although one which is less important for Orcs. The other two key reasons to kick are control of the clock and control of the KO box. The whole "I hit you first" thing is pretty much negated by control of the KO box.

[DoubleSkulls]

Against other bash a line of 4 BOBs and a troll, all with guard, is about as good as it gets and ought to form an pretty immoveable barrier. Four guarding BOBs are also good, but not quite so dominating.

The secret to the troll is to move him early if he's only moving - so you can compensate if he messes up - or do nothing with him at all. Only block when it doesn't really matter or you have 3 dice. He's a great road block and centre point for the line.

Orcs without a troll are probably a bit better against flair teams, since they'll try to run around your BOBs anyway. That's especially true with this team where you have suitably skilled line orcs. Most orc teams don't have as many line orcs.

I'd still buy that 4th BOB asap and really I wouldn't worry about the MA3 one. Its not ideal, but since he's got block he's a lot better than a rookie BOB will be for maybe a dozen games. Remember the more developed your opposition the slower BOBs skill up - its one of the other reasons for getting them all early.

[DoubleSkulls]

Oh, and the other thing with the troll is that you do have a decent chance of getting block after a couple of skills which greatly improves reliability. If you prefer movement then take pro to avoid the RS failures.

[Mad Jackal]

I'd pull one square further off the line. We don't want the big ogres quick snapping into your 2nd row of defenders I should think.

Plus tz over-lapping is not going to be as important against the snots...you do have to cover to stop extra assists I grant, but you'll want to play a little looser I imagine.

[mattgslater]

Normally I'm big on one-square-back defenses with Orcs, as there's no need for your team to fear the Quick Snap. But vs. Ogres, I agree. You'll only want a 2TTD if you've had 6 turns in the half, so the extra square doesn't matter as much; besides, there ain't no net that can hold a Snotling reliably (at least not without liberal Tackle, Diving Tackle or Shadowing). And Quick Snap is more problematic vs. Ogres than vs. other teams.

[DoubleSkulls]

Are you cross posting from the Orc/Ogre thread?

[mattgslater]

Are you cross posting from the Orc/Ogre thread?

I'm just riffing off of Mad Jackal.

Against Ogres, I like that setup with three linos on the line, or at least with two rookie BOBs. You give up three dice with all linos, but it's hard as heck to get 3d on a BOB. Against any other team, I'd generally do this with my Orcs (minor tweaks for certain opponents):

Code: Select all

-- -- -- --|-- -- BO TR BO -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- BZ --|-- BO -- -- -- BO --|-- BZ -- --
-- BZ -- --|TH -- -- -- -- -- LM|-- -- BZ --

You don't have my Orc team, though: you're doing something different. Not sure what to advise.

[Big Daddy]

One of the many good reasons for kicking first, although one which is less important for Orcs. The other two key reasons to kick are control of the clock and control of the KO box. The whole "I hit you first" thing is pretty much negated by control of the KO box.

Hi Sillysod Can you please elaborate on what you mean by control of the KO box? Thanks.

[SillySod]

If you're recieving and score then there will be at least two sets of KO rolls by half time, theres nothing you can do about that. However...

If you're kicking there might be three vague scenarios:
1 - things go really wrong for you and your opponent scores but you dont.
2 - things go well for you and you concede but score one yourself
3 - things go absolutely to plan and you score late in their half

In scenario 1 you are more likely to have been beaten up, you are garunteed to get 2 KO rolls here which is just what you need after being beaten up.
In scenarios 2 and 3 you are probably winning the bashfest in which case you score in your turn 8 meaning that theres only one KO roll. Notice though that if you want 2 KO rolls you can score a turn earlier - hence you have control of the KO box in a way that you never could when recieving.

Generally when you are kicking the KOs will go your way, even when you are not in control of the game. Of course this advantage dosent apply to the second half because it dosent matter if the KOs come back after that

It depends on the matchup but I find that KO box control is usually more influential on the player count than going first.

[Big Daddy]

Against other bash a line of 4 BOBs and a troll, all with guard, is about as good as it gets and ought to form an pretty immoveable barrier. Four guarding BOBs are also good, but not quite so dominating.

The secret to the troll is to move him early if he's only moving - so you can compensate if he messes up - or do nothing with him at all. Only block when it doesn't really matter or you have 3 dice. He's a great road block and centre point for the line.

Orcs without a troll are probably a bit better against flair teams, since they'll try to run around your BOBs anyway. That's especially true with this team where you have suitably skilled line orcs. Most orc teams don't have as many line orcs.

I'd still buy that 4th BOB asap and really I wouldn't worry about the MA3 one. Its not ideal, but since he's got block he's a lot better than a rookie BOB will be for maybe a dozen games. Remember the more developed your opposition the slower BOBs skill up - its one of the other reasons for getting them all early.

Thanks for the detailed analysis ianwilliams.

I can see your point in as much as a guarding line is hard to break down and the development is slow on the stronger guys so the longer they are on the roster the better skilled they'll be.

I'm just not sold on on tying up half the team on the LOS. I like when players set up like this against me. I find it easier to penetrate their backfield than with a deeper defensive set up.

[Big Daddy]

Thanks for the explanation Sillysod. It has crystallised a few of the vague thoughts I had roaming in my head for me.