Grum's Eurobowl Suggestion

[Grumbledook]

Had a bit of a natter with some players and it is really standing out to me that the same selection of races are taken on every team. Of course there is a little variation but basically the same 10 or so races are generally the ones each nation will pick from.

For me this is getting a little bit boring, you know what races you are likely to be facing and there will be a lot of same match ups all over the place.

There is little skill involved in picking the strongest races and it is pretty obvious you should do so if your nation is to stand a chance of winning it. So I got thinking there should be some way to remedy this and I put on my thinking cap.

8 players per nation 24 bloodbowl team == 8 groups of 3 teams and each nation has to pick one race from each group.

So for example group1 could have undead, wood elves and dwarfs for example.

This means each nation will only have one of these 3 races on their team.
Not every nation will have the same lineup (more or less).
There will be a wider representation of races from the game
May mean coaches who play the "weaker" races a shot of their national team that they may not have otherwise.

But overall the bigger diversion of races from nation to nation will make the eurobowl that bit more interesting and stop it becoming stale from seeing the same lineups year on year.

Now if this is taken up (which I think it should) I don't think you can swiss the players within a team each round (can still swiss the nations overall) otherwise you will just end up with the weaker races playing each other after a few rounds. I think that extra little bit of randomness and supposed "upsets" of undead losing to halflings for example are also good for the tournament.

Now having not played all the races myself I thought which 8 groups have which races would be better decided by the community, so I'm open to ideas and we can discuss it here. Of course these can be changed year on year if need be. If you don't like it then please also post why and any other comments/ideas/questions discussion is encouraged. As a community we have shown what we can achieve before so lets keep pushing the improvements! Input is welcome from round the globe as well, not just europeans have good points.

The "best blood bowl nation" should be able to battle it out using the whole range of race strengths in the game, no more cookie cutter line ups!

vote for change
vote for grum!

(I also ask any foreign coaches to translate the idea to any specific language forum and to bring represented feedback)

[Grumbledook]

(post reserved to list groups lineup)

[juergen]

My first thought was: nice idea.

On a second thought...welll... I am not sure if people will just take the strongest races of each group and you find all teams ending up with basically the same races again...

[Grumbledook]

that's why you put all the stronger teams in the same groups as each other to stop that

then hopefully each of the 8 groups will have teams equal enough that each nation won't have an easy choice to pick from

you also have to find a coach willing to play those teams as well

of course each nation may end up taking the same 8 races but hopefully the chances will be a lot lower than they are now ;]

[mattwhile]

Although knowing that the chances of me playing in a eurobowl are slim, it does sound like a good idea in theory.

I would split the teams up as follows, (based loosely on overall tournament victories);

Group A Undead, Woodies, Dwarves

Group B Skaven, Orcs , Lizards

Group C Norse, Amazon, Chaos Dwarves

Group D Khemri, Dark Elves, Necromantic

Group E High Elves, Elves, Human

Group F Nurgle, Chaos, Slann

Group G Underworld, Vampire, Chaos Pact

Group H Ogres, Halflings, Goblins

Having to take one team from each group would make for some interesting choices.

Updated to change orcs and dwarves.

[Valen]

As you already know Grum I am all for this idea, I think it is a good one, it was about time you had one

As for the groups I would agree with mattwhile apart from I would swap Dwarves with Orcs

[Hangus]

although i think it is a good idea would you not get Undead vs Undead / Orc or WE ie the same teams from each group playing each other.

Would a points system work? So each team gets set number of points to spend and each race has a points value.

[Pipey]

First instinct: if it aint broke, don't fix it...

Always interested in new ideas though...

I can forsee that there'd be a lot of disagreement about how to group the races. I'd do it objectively by looking at the win % stats for LRB5 tourneys.

You'd need to scrap NAF ranking straight away, as the high tier teams would gain a huge advantage. Undead and Wood Elf coaches would win a lot of matches.

I'm inclined to agree with Juergen here too. You're just switching one system for another. Nations will still end up with fairly similar looking sets of races.

[mattwhile]

You could for a certain number of games.

For example the first three games each group A player plays the group A player from the other country, B plays B etc.

Then the remaining games it is randomized so you could get ogres v undead etc. and look forward to an upset .

[Grumbledook]

I think the fact each nation is taking the same teams is broken though pippy

I don't see why you would need to scrap it being NAF ranked either, not that different to turning up at the blood bowl and getting an easy draw, people take halflings, goblins etc to other tournaments already

and what about the goblin team that was at the last eurobowl ;o

some good stuff so far, keep it coming

@ hangus, that is why i suggested going back to not having it swiss amoungst the players, like the good old days, or matt's suggestion or something could work

I did think about a points system for races as well though it will essentially boil down to the same thing but with perhaps a lot more min maxing. Using fixed groups provides a wider spread of races

[wp]

Translated and posted on the italian Forum. Waiting for replies...

Personally I think it's a good idea! At least Eurobowl France and Italy had the same race setup. Some difference in the weakest races, but the 4-5 strongest teams had the same roster and skills choises
Despite We Won, the level of the game was a little boring.

I disagree with Jurgeon and Pippy. For Example: You have to choose within Woodies, Undeads and Dwarfs... In the last eurobowl-italian-team they made respectivly 5 pt, 4.5 pt and 5.5 pt. A very small difference... not sure which of this 3 races is the best and which are he two to discard

Roller

[Grumbledook]

cheers roller, with you lot hosting it next year, be interesting to see what the consensus is

[Dave]

I think I like the idea
The stories that I heard from the Dutch EB team are all including one thing: a lot of the fun is drawn away from the tournament because of the 'have to be the best' feeling that's around. There's less fun there.

Criteria for Selection similar to this could help in that respect.

[Glorian Underhill]

Actually I like the idea. I'm one of the players who think that the eurobowl is good as it is. Especially the point system of wining is a non touchable object. But team choices are allways the hardest.

And as mentioned I would put dwarfs in the Group A. Or as some have said team one and two of each nation would be next year Undead, Dwarfs.

But for groups e,f,g,h that is a tough choice. And I wouldn't make team vs team setup complete random. I really liked they put inteam swiss in last year. Sure the h group would then have to make it out between themselves, but im not really convinced as there are a lot of tier one teams with their coaches who haven't had a complete and glorious win series. So the matchups wouldnt been that predictable.
And also the last 4 groups would really give the eurobowl some special flavour.

[driesfield]

I like the idea.
With this system people will have to start with a team that they haven't played before.