Grum's Eurobowl Suggestion

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Post by Topper »

Nice and fast response :)
I don't see how it will put any more same race games in than it would before. With nations taking different line up of races there is even less chance.
My thinking was based on the (clearly) wrong perception that pier 1 teams would play pier 1 teams etc.

The discussion on what team belongs at what pier is another issue.
This goes together with my thoughts on bigger piers (as they are easier to agree upon).
I think that the only race most will agree on is superior to others are the WE.
There will be discussions as to whether Dwarves, Orcs, Lizzies, Skaven or UD should be placed where and probably even CD, Norse and amazon too.

This was another reason why I feel the player match ups each round would be better randomised like the first few eurobowls were.
One major issue is that this will completely randomise the individual competition. As it is now, the best performing players will meet up (more likely) and that is how it should be IMO.
You also stated that forcing a more wide range of races to be taken may make it harder for some nations to get a team together. The current system with the better 8 races being taken somewhat forces each nations hand to a degree on who takes what. I understand that someone said they would only go if they could play goblins this year (last minute replacement) though the current england team was picked based on who could play with what race in the first place, as were some other nations I assume.
What I meant was that the smaller nations, who already have trouble finding 8 players, might get a hard time getting someone to play races they are very unlikely to even win one game with.

I am not even sure I´d play a team I don´t expect to get 4 pts with.
We all play to have fun ofcourse, but we also play to win - as a team and on the individual level.

As thus I like the idea, but I fear it will weaken the tournament form.
Perhaps it would be better if you weren´t forced to pick too many lousy teams?

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Post by Dave »

Topper wrote:What I meant was that the smaller nations, who already have trouble finding 8 players, might get a hard time getting someone to play races they are very unlikely to even win one game with.
I know 100% sure that that's at least not true for the Netherlands. There's allways one or two coaches who want to go for the fun with the team and the other coaches, they won't mind playing Halflings. (I know I wouldn't mind) Besides, you may well attract a coach that's not going there for winning alone, but mainly for the fun.

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Post by wp »

Dave wrote: I heard the Italian coach that lost to the netherlands (agreed, he was the only one to lose, the rest won) was forced to eat and sleep alone. (And I heard this story second / third hand so I may have some things wrong)
You are totally wrong. :?:
Noone of the Italian Team was forced to do anything (We have some traditions: the rookies players have to take care of the veterans, but it is only a joke :D ).
And surely noone of us was forced to sleep alone. (Honestly I don't know exactly where all the people have slept :zzz: )
Phoenix decided to eat alone becouse off he gained only 0.5 points in the first day and was sad (noone forced him), but finally we convinced him to stay with us (we need all the team to complete the cerimony of Magica Bula...)

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Post by Old Man Draco »

Darkson wrote:
Pippy wrote:Not sure EB is the best forum for experimentation.
If not the EB, then where? Is there another tournament with the same format?
Almost yes, the Lowland Border Brawl. We are actually planning on having coaches bring teams along and then draw who plays what.
With the pots you now have made up (not you Simon;)) you could do the same thing. Make a draw at the evening before EB who gets what from what pot. All you need to do is make sure the 24 teams are all available.

Hell, you could even have players pick teams from the pots in the reverse order of the standings of this year. Would make it pretty sure that the title will not remain in one place and might get back to the Netherlands again! :lol:

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Post by Old Man Draco »

Oh, and one more thing. If you want it a little less competative, take away the NAF ranked status. Many players can't live with loosing a NAF ranked match.

"Ooh my precious NAF points....... :cry: " :roll:

Maybe they loosen up if it's not NAF ranked.

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Post by Dave »

wp wrote:[
You are totally wrong. :?:
Noone of the Italian Team was forced to do anything (We have some traditions: the rookies players have to take care of the veterans, but it is only a joke :D ).
OK, I believe you, it was a story that was allmost too much to believe anyway.

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Post by SillySod »

Topper wrote:I am not even sure I´d play a team I don´t expect to get 4 pts with.
We all play to have fun of course, but we also play to win - as a team and on the individual level.

As thus I like the idea, but I fear it will weaken the tournament form.
Perhaps it would be better if you weren´t forced to pick too many lousy teams?
I dont think that there are nearly as many "lousy teams" as people seem to think. Some teams are very clearly better than others but teams such as vampires, high elves, and chaos pact are all perfectly capable of competing with and beating woodies, zons, and lizzies. Granted you have to be pretty good and be able to play outside of most peoples comfort zones but I thought this was supposed to be a competitive tournament? :D

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Post by Topper »

Some teams are very clearly better than others but teams such as vampires, high elves, and chaos pact are all perfectly capable of competing with and beating woodies, zons, and lizzies.
Well I have a wide experience with LRB 4&5 teams and I do admit that many teams are better than perceived as thus...
However, and this is to no debate, Some teams are top, some just below, some again just below these and finally the worst ones..
And there is no doubt that the better the team you play - the better are your odds of winning.
Again teams have a different place where they are strongest.
Some are best at TV 100, some at 110 (in comparison here), some with few skills some with many.

About the smaller nations, glad that it´s not a problem with the Dutch.
But what about the Austrians and/or Belgians or Hungary?
To name some, I don´t know, but IF it meant a country less because of a change in rules it´d be bad

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Post by PubBowler »

Draco wrote:Oh, and one more thing. If you want it a little less competative, take away the NAF ranked status. Many players can't live with loosing a NAF ranked match.

"Ooh my precious NAF points....... :cry: " :roll:

Maybe they loosen up if it's not NAF ranked.
I like to think national pride/competitive spirit outweighed any motivation to harvest NAF points from lesser nations.

As such, I'm not sure if this would work.

But I could be wrong.

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Post by SillySod »

Surely NAF points are irrelevant? If they are using a race which they are unfamiliar with or which they wouldnt normally play then surely they wont have a NAF ranking to damage? Its not like anyone will think less of you if you once played in the Eurobowl with goblins and lost 4 games.

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Post by DoubleSkulls »

Draco wrote:Oh, and one more thing. If you want it a little less competative, take away the NAF ranked status. Many players can't live with loosing a NAF ranked match.

"Ooh my precious NAF points....... :cry: " :roll:

Maybe they loosen up if it's not NAF ranked.
I'd just kick them up the arse and tell them to stop being childish.

The rankings are race based anyway, so playing an "inferior" race can't hurt your ranking with a "superior" race. Winning against a 200+ rated player with a 150 ranking gets a lot of points...

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Post by Old Man Draco »

ianwilliams wrote:I'd just kick them up the arse and tell them to stop being childish.
But that easy for you to say. You are so much stronger than me! :wink:

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Post by Ironjaw »

Grum you little bastard. Like your idea.

What is the general thoughts on all countries having the same 8 races?

Then it's more about player skill rather than race problems. :smoking:

I know you'll all hate my idea cause you're all bastards. :P :P

Leon

BTW: I played 3 twatting norse teams this year, and England didn't even have one.

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Post by Longshot »

i like the idea but not for Eurobowl.
I mean, it is already hard to select a team talking for french community) with the actual rules..would be a nightmare with Grum's rules.

the stuffs i would change are:
-Matchs-ups
Captain X put a player on table 1
Captain Y put a plyer on table 1 and 2
Captain X put a player on table 2 and 3 ...

-point system ( my taste would be for nations score and individual as tie breaker)
Nation X won 5-3 against Nation Y
Nation X score would be: 2pts (5..or +2 if net points is better)
Nation Y score would be :0 (3 or -2)
Dont know if victory should be 2 or 3 pts.. whatever, you got the idea.
-Captain Reroll: just to represent the leader reroll in a way.
Captain would have 1 reroll to use freely on any game at any time..
but only one time in the tournament

Some of those ideas are going to be tested at Lutece


But...we have to understand that Eurobowl is so big now that it is hard to change easily stuffs. And tomorrow with those kind of group race, even more player will try to attend in their national teams..or creating again some regional teams. That would be a mess to deal with for captains imho.
That s why for any changes on Eurobowl (which run good) rules it should be tested somewhere else before and have a real feedback to concider.

If you want different flavour, well...there are a lot of tourny already...
and some feedback on a lot of team tourny can help for the best.

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Post by sann0638 »

Ironjaw wrote: BTW: I played 3 twatting norse teams this year, and England didn't even have one.
Go Norse!

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