Help Skaven team to survive in bashy league

[Corporate_Penguin]

I have a skaven team in our local league. Other teams are 2x Orcs, 2x Chaos, Dwarf, Undead and Lizardmen, so it's quite bashy. We play fixed schedule with two matches against each other in training season first, then same in season, and after that play-offs.

So far I have done well with 8W-0D-2L record, but I expect it to get harder once other teams get more tackle and mb etc. All coaches are experienced, exept othe other orc coach and the dwarf, so there will be tougher games ahead. However, the problem is that, while I have been able to win games with scoring with gutter runners, I have failed to develope blitzers, throwers, and most of the linerats. Only one goal I have been able to make with a blitzer. Throwers are also essentially linerats with extra skills in my current team.

I have tendency to use rat ogre as a blitzer, despite his unreliability. Because against strenght teams with undeveloped blitzers, it's been very useful, so I have developed him that way.

My team has:

GR: Block, sidestep. Next skill: Diving tackle or Fend?
GR: Block, Guard. Next: Sidestep?
GR: Wrestle, Strip Ball. Next: Dauntless or Leap? Horns
GR: AG+1. Next: Block or Leap?
Blitzer. Next: Guard if Claw, MB, tackle
Blitzer. Next: Guard if Claw, MB, tackle
2x Thrower Next: Block?
Linerat: AG+1. Next: wrestle?
Linerat: Kick, Block. Next: Fend
4 x Linerat. Next: Wrestle, Fend
Rat Ogre: Juggernaut, Breack Tackle Next: Stand Firm?

4 RR, 11 FF
Bank: 40 000

Any advices? Should the GR who rolled doubles take big hand, or should ball retrieval duty be ag+ gutters job?
How about other skill choices? Some that I haven't even thought about?

What to do with the linerat with ag+?

I think I will get 5th re-roll as I have been forced to roll 1 die blocks (and even 2d against blocks when blitzing the ball carrier) against strength teams. How many re-rolls is optimal?

Last Edited: 060609; 11:08

[Grumbledook]

block GR with doubles i'd take guard

obv the more guard you have the less one dice blocks you will be taking

the ag+ linerat I'd also use as another scoring threat and using to dodge around and provide an assist where needed

with the rest of your linerats, obv kick first on one then i'd go wrestle+fend rather than block, they are going to get hit a lot and wrestle is better for them

they won't usually be able to hit back anyway and if you get the opposing player down, they also can't block their next turn and may even save you making some dodges

[Jural]

Kick on your next lineman to go up.

GR's- Leap on the +AG. Horns on a double roll, then side step on your wrestle strip baller, and fend on the side stepper (leap next if he gets that far.)

Try to put pressure on people with your gutter runners. Horns, Strip Ball, Dauntless, Side Step, Leap are your friends. Wrestle or Block are fine too.

[Corporate_Penguin]

I considered wrestle for the kick linerat (one is enough, right? Or do I really need two kickers to be sure to field one? ), but decided to get block to keep him standing to avoid fouling as much as possible as he will targeted by other coaches. Fend next then maybe. And yes, other linetrats should get wrestle as first skill I agree.

Guarding GR seems good idea too, to get that guard where it matters.

[Jimjimjimany]

Your skill choices seem really good so far. I'd definitely go guard on both blitzers next, that should help you survive in a bashy league. If you want tacklers that's a good second skill for a linerat after wrestle.

For your gutter runner with doubles, guard is solid, but also consider horns and two heads. Two heads is probably weaker considering your ag+ runner, but horns is outstanding on gutter runners; if he didn't already have block I wouldn't think twice about horns, but it goes better with wrestle/strip ball.

The ag+ gutter runner should get block next, he is more suited to ball handling/retrieval so block is better than wrestle in this case.

4 Re-rolls is optimal, i don't see needing 5.

Best of luck!

[mattgslater]

I'd give the +AG Runner Leap. Talk about a game-changer! The doubles guy I'd get Guard over Horns or Nerves, which would be my second and third choices. Among other things, a Guard GR frees your linemen up to take boutique skills on doubles, like Leader or Grab.

For the +AG Lino, it's gotta be Block or Wrestle. Block if you want to score with him or if you want to use him in place of a GR in a spot you can't protect. Wrestle if you want to use him as a blitzer. I like that; it lets you build a GR for "offense" with Catch. Catch on a single GR is great, as with a TRR your linerats can throw to him with impunity. To that effect, you might want to hire a 5th TRR and fire it after you skill all your linerats... but only if you find you need all 4 right now.

I'd give one Thrower KOR to facilitate OTS, or Accurate to distribute TDs with more confidence. I'd build the Blitzers differently: one would be a nose-man with Guard and Stand Firm, and the other would be either a hunter with MB and Frenzy or a toolbox with Grab and Guard.

[Digger Goreman]

...should ball retrieval duty be ag+ gutters job?
What to do with the linerat with ag+?

Dress 'em in tights, lipstick and eyeliner... then call them elves....

[Smeborg]

I suggest you replace the Blitzer with Niggling Injury as soon as you can. He's a liablilty.

[bbdave522]

I suggest you replace the Blitzer with Niggling Injury as soon as you can. He's a liablilty.

Agreed. The blitzer is the most durable piece on your team. A Niggling injury ruins that. Kick him out the moment you have money to replace him, don't let him earn SPPs when those could go to an uninjured player.

[Corporate_Penguin]

I retired the niggler and hired fresh sturm vermin. Good point.

Also, Guard has been given to the gutter with doubles. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

Both of the ag+ rats will be missing the next game, but luckily they weren't hurt more severely at the last game.

[Carnis]

Catch on a single GR is great, as with a TRR your linerats can throw to him with impunity.

I really must disagree with this one, I mean.. Going up from 92% success to 95% success in a quick pass is really not a game breaker. You're going to be needing the catch instead of a TRR only in 1/36 passes. Furthermore, the catch skill ties your hands, as your opponent will generally be more likely to target your catch gutter, over your non-catch gutters, negating the benefit of having a catch reroll in the first place. Where as getting 4 catch skills on gutters is total overcommitment. There's plenty of better choices for a gutter runner's skillup for sure..

[mattgslater]

Ya know, you're probably right. It's important to have someone for the linerats to throw to, but maybe you should just stick to comping for SPP when you have TRRs.

I've found that on teams with dedicated Catcher-types, you really have to work to advance other players, so you're always throwing to the Catcher, who runs up and hands off.... Catch is best used not to help score (I mean, take it if you need it...), but rather to help distribute. Given that the problem on a Skaven lino-to-GR pass is the thrower, maybe a RR skill isn't the best idea.

3+/2+ pass with no TRR: 2/3*5/6=10/18=5/9 ~ 55.6%
To TRR the pass: (1/3*2/3*5/6)=5/27
To TRR the catch: (2/3*1/6*5/6)=5/54
Total with a TRR: 5/9+5/27+5/54=(30+10+5)/54=45/54=5/6 ~ 83.3%

3+/2+ Catch, no TRR: 2/3*35/36=35/54 ~ 64.5%
To TRR the pass: (1/3*2/3*35/36)=35/162
Total with a TRR: 35/54+35/162=(105+35)/162=(140/162)=70/81 ~ 86.5%

So it's 9% if you don't have a TRR, the same odds motivator as keeping a TRR open for a 2d hit without Block. That makes a bigger difference than you'd think if you have to pick up or receive a handoff on the same turn, or if it's the end of the half. But yeah, it's probably not worth an early skill investment unless the Catch TRR wins you a game in the first 10 or so matches with it and buys you 2 or 3 more completions.