TR110 Humans for newbie

Peoples Champ · Post by **Peoples Champ** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:11 am

This is my first BB tournament so just want some help from those out there more experienced than me.

The rules for the tournament are:
* All teams are created as rookie teams with a starting value of 1,100,000 Gold. All gold must be spent (Fan Factor may be 0).
* The Coach then selects and allocates 1 of the following skill Sets (no more than 1 upgrade a Player)
o 4 Normal, 2 Double
o 4 Normal, 1 Double, 1 +1 MV
o 5 Normal, 1 +1 AG
o 4 Normal, 1 +1 S
* Living rulebook 5 is to be used but the 3 new proposed races (Slann, Chaos pact & Underworld Teams) are permitted
* Halfling teams may purchase a Master Chef for their team and is usable for all matches. Other Inducements (ie Wizards, Star Players, Mercenaries etc) are not permitted.

The Human team I am thinking of going with is as follows:
Human Thrower - Pass, Sure hands (new skill - Block)
Catcher - Dodge, Catch
Catcher - Dodge, Catch
Blitzer - Block (new skill - Tackle)
Blitzer - Block (new skill - Strip ball)
Blitzer - Block (new skill - Strip ball)
Blitzer - Block
Lineman (new skill - Dirty player)
Lineman
Lineman
Lineman
Ogre - Throw team-mate, Mighty blow, Loner, Bonehead, Thick skull (new skill - Block)
FF - 3
3 x Rerolls
Total - 1,100,000

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:07 am

Strip Ball will not be very good in this format, as there are enough skills floating around that any team without a rugged Sure Hands option will have the MA/AG to play keep-away. Dirty Player is so nerfed as to be near-worthless. Guard is a better choice on Blitzers, and Kick on one Lineman (Wrestle would be next, but you don't really have enough skill selections for that...). The ability to take an AG increase without getting fewer overall improvements is very powerful: AG4 Throwers add a lot of consistency offensively, and on defense can be difference-makers if the ball comes loose near them.

Here's what I might do with 1.1M, if you like Ogres (assuming you do, as you posted a list with an Ogre).

Ogre
4 Blitzers (Guard, Guard, Stand Firm or Frenzy)
2 Catchers
2 Throwers (Block, AG4)
3 Linemen (Kick)
3 Re-Rolls
2 FF

or give the Ogre Block, take all the skills off the Throwers, and take Side Step on the #4 Blitzer. Or do the same, but instead of Side Step on a Blitzer take Guard on a Lineman. Which way to go is largely dependent on how you think about the game: as a novice, I'd either take the top one (the list) or the last option with the Guard lino.

If you want to be really bashy, trade a Catcher, a Thrower, and a Fan Factor for two Linemen and an Apothecary.

If you're not an Ogre person, then you can trade an Ogre and one of those FF for an Apoth, another reserve, and a 4th Re-Roll.

Peoples Champ · Post by **Peoples Champ** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:38 am

mattgslater wrote:Strip Ball will not be very good in this format, as there are enough skills floating around that any team without a rugged Sure Hands option will have the MA/AG to play keep-away. Dirty Player is so nerfed as to be near-worthless. Guard is a better choice on Blitzers, and Kick on one Lineman (Wrestle would be next, but you don't really have enough skill selections for that...). The ability to take an AG increase without getting fewer overall improvements is very powerful: AG4 Throwers add a lot of consistency offensively, and on defense can be difference-makers if the ball comes loose near them.

Here's what I might do with 1.1M, if you like Ogres (assuming you do, as you posted a list with an Ogre).

Ogre
4 Blitzers (Guard, Guard, Stand Firm or Frenzy)
2 Catchers
2 Throwers (Block, AG4)
3 Linemen (Kick)
3 Re-Rolls
2 FF

or give the Ogre Block, take all the skills off the Throwers, and take Side Step on the #4 Blitzer. Or do the same, but instead of Side Step on a Blitzer take Guard on a Lineman. Which way to go is largely dependent on how you think about the game: as a novice, I'd either take the top one (the list) or the last option with the Guard lino.

If you want to be really bashy, trade a Catcher, a Thrower, and a Fan Factor for two Linemen and an Apothecary.

If you're not an Ogre person, then you can trade an Ogre and one of those FF for an Apoth, another reserve, and a 4th Re-Roll.

Good advice, thanks.
I like the look of the first list you posted, two throwers does give more options. I will go with AG 4 on the thrower not sure about the other skills. Frenzy sounds good on a blitzer. I think block on the ogre is vital. Lots to ponder... look forward to others input particulary those that have run human teams in similar tournaments.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:54 am

I have played humans in a 110 tourney before (once) and did ok with them: 3 wins, 2 losses.

I think matt's suggestions are very solid (I took the exact same team). I wouldn't take stand firm on a blitzer personally, I very much prefer Frenzy myself.
Guard on blitzers is key.
Not too sure about kick, while you have the speed you lack the agility to make the best use out of it. I'd swap it for wrestle on a lineman.
Getting Leader on a thrower is very tempting tbh, but I can definately see the value of a Block/Sure Hands ball carrier. I'd take leader if you don't expect a lot of wood elf teams.
If you take a skill on the Ogre it should be guard IMO, but I don't think he needs a skill. He's just a big roadblock that prevents your team from getting slapped too much.

Peoples Champ · Post by **Peoples Champ** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:05 am

TuernRedvenom wrote:I have played humans in a 110 tourney before (once) and did ok with them: 3 wins, 2 losses.

I think matt's suggestions are very solid (I took the exact same team). I wouldn't take stand firm on a blitzer personally, I very much prefer Frenzy myself.
Guard on blitzers is key.
Not too sure about kick, while you have the speed you lack the agility to make the best use out of it. I'd swap it for wrestle on a lineman.
Getting Leader on a thrower is very tempting tbh, but I can definately see the value of a Block/Sure Hands ball carrier. I'd take leader if you don't expect a lot of wood elf teams.
If you take a skill on the Ogre it should be guard IMO, but I don't think he needs a skill. He's just a big roadblock that prevents your team from getting slapped too much.

Nice. I would side with you regarding kick. Looks like maybe guard for at least two blitzers seems good sense. So...
2 x blitzers -guard
Blitzer - frenzy
catcher - AG 4
catcher - block
Ogre - block.
That seems to round it out. Any differing opnions?

Cleutin · Post by **Cleutin** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:11 am

5 Normal, 1 +1 AG

2x Guard = 2 normale skills
1x Frenzy = 1 normale skill
+AG = obvl. +AG

Block = 1 normal skill
Block (on Ogre) = 1 double Skill

So you would have taken 4 normal skills, 1 +AG and 1 double skill. This is not allowed, regarding to your first post

Peoples Champ · Post by **Peoples Champ** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:15 am

Cleutin wrote:
5 Normal, 1 +1 AG
2x Guard = 2 normale skills
1x Frenzy = 1 normale skill
+AG = obvl. +AG
Block = 1 normal skill
Block (on Ogre) = 1 double Skill

So you would have taken 4 normal skills, 1 +AG and 1 double skill. This is not allowed, regarding to your first post

Sorry I thought block for ogres was normal but just checking it is only Strength skills that are allowed not General

.
Maybe I just leave the ogre as is and give a normal skill to someone else. But who?...

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:21 am

Peoples Champ wrote:
Cleutin wrote:
5 Normal, 1 +1 AG
2x Guard = 2 normale skills
1x Frenzy = 1 normale skill
+AG = obvl. +AG
Block = 1 normal skill
Block (on Ogre) = 1 double Skill

So you would have taken 4 normal skills, 1 +AG and 1 double skill. This is not allowed, regarding to your first post
Sorry I thought block for ogres was normal but just checking it is only Strength skills that are allowed not General .
Maybe I just leave the ogre as is and give a normal skill to someone else. But who?...

I would definately not put the AG on the catcher. He is too easily injured with AV 7. Giving him AG+ also marks him as your go-to receiver, and it's not that hard to blitz him down.
Putting it on the thrower means your scoring threath increases by a lot as he can throw an easy pass just about everywhere. It's a lot harder for your opponent to deal with. Throwers will be handling the ball every offensive drive so you should capitalise on that and put your +AG there.

I would put the remaining skill on a thrower, and I think I would take leader.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:48 am

If you were taking the AG+ option, i would definitely give it to the catcher. And not take any Throwers. The catcher shouldn't be your runner, he should be your ball carrier and so in the middle of your cage. Humans are a running team with the option to pass, not the other way round.

Peoples Champ · Post by **Peoples Champ** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:01 am

Joemanji wrote:If you were taking the AG+ option, i would definitely give it to the catcher. And not take any Throwers. The catcher shouldn't be your runner, he should be your ball carrier and so in the middle of your cage. Humans are a running team with the option to pass, not the other way round.

Interesting take on things. Cage the catcher then once he gets close he can just run in. I actually meant to put AG4 on the thrower just had a brain fade. However your arguement is very strong. I think maybe still take two throwers as they come with some skills that gives me flexibilty.
You guys have certainly opened my eyes alot. Much to ponder.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:17 am

Without a thrower you can have:

Ogre
3 Blitzers
2 Catchers
7 Linemen
3 rerolls
APO

or drop the APO and upgrade a lineman to the 4th Blitzer.

Problem with the Thrower is there is no point him having the ball unless he is going to throw it. And AG3 passing games are doomed to failure. He is one of the slowest players on the team and doesn't have Dodge or Block. So in the middle of a cage he might as well be a lineman.

As for skills: Block on the Ogre is just brilliant, well worth taking that skill set. Transforms the team. Guard on the Blitzers is a must really. I like the look of:

Ogre w/ Block
3 Blitzers w/ Guard
1 Blitzer w/ Tackle, Frenzy or Guard, or 1 Catcher w/ Block or Sure Hands,
1 Catcher w/ Block or Sure Hands, or 1 Lineman w/ Kick or Wrestle

Peoples Champ · Post by **Peoples Champ** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:46 am

Joemanji wrote:Without a thrower you can have:

Ogre
3 Blitzers
2 Catchers
7 Linemen
3 rerolls
APO

or drop the APO and upgrade a lineman to the 4th Blitzer.

Problem with the Thrower is there is no point him having the ball unless he is going to throw it. And AG3 passing games are doomed to failure. He is one of the slowest players on the team and doesn't have Dodge or Block. So in the middle of a cage he might as well be a lineman.

As for skills: Block on the Ogre is just brilliant, well worth taking that skill set. Transforms the team. Guard on the Blitzers is a must really. I like the look of:

Ogre w/ Block
3 Blitzers w/ Guard
1 Blitzer w/ Tackle, Frenzy or Guard, or 1 Catcher w/ Block or Sure Hands,
1 Catcher w/ Block or Sure Hands, or 1 Lineman w/ Kick or Wrestle

I think I would always run with 4 blitzers. Agree on block on the ogre however AG 4 for eithier a catcher or thrower is the other option. I think 12 players is enough and keep the throwers in the team.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:58 am

12 players is definitely not enough. I've run Orcs with 13 players and still found myself fielding less than 11 players on plenty of occasions. I've fielded a 12 man Undead team (= regen) and still had to start a second half with 8 players on 2 out of 6 games.

If I took a 12 player Human roster, I would be confident in losing at least half my games solely because I ran out of players.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:51 pm

Can't second Joe's experience on how many players is enough. 12 and an Apoth should be plenty, and 12 or an Apoth is fine in most winnable games. If you really want to avoid injury, take enough skilled players to manage your strategy effectively. Similarly, I never thought of Humans as primarily a running team: they've got all the tools to air the ball out (keep it to short passes with a bonus or QPs without) and only average toughness. They can run when grinding is the goal, but it's important to maintain an effective air game for coping with bashy teams.

You couldn't pay me enough to burn a skill on a Catcher in this format, unless it was Block (well, you could pay me enough, but you wouldn't). If you're not taking a Thrower, take a Block Ogre and either a Guard Lino or a Side Step Blitzer (manning one corner, a Side Step Blitzer opens up crazy defensive options, and makes for a great blocker in a running cage).

I don't see the relationship between Agility and Kick. I see the relationship between MA and Kick, but Kick is about field control more than it's about getting the ball. In this format there will be no KOR, so good use of Kick will hang up cage offenses very effectively.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:59 pm

Catchers are brilliant. Overpriced maybe, but what isn't on the Human team?

Block makes them somewhat survivable, and if you chuck in Guard on most of your Blitzers they can throw 1D or 2D blocks quite easily. Obviously skills are better value on the ogre and blitzers. But Block on a catcher is by no means a bad skill.

Plus, if you want to break out with a Block catcher, 69% gets you out against someone without Block (91% with a reroll).