To Minotaur or Not Minotaur?

Skarsnikk · Post by **Skarsnikk** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:36 am

My Chaos team is coming along nicely with 2/4 warriors picking up block, one Beastman with Extra arms & Block and 4 other beastman with Block.

Now a 6th Beastman has levelled and I'm toying with the idea of giving him Kick, or should this be a second skill after Block?

I also have 200k in the bank, do I use this to purchase a Minotaur or a 3rd re-roll?
I currently have a Roster of 12 players.

Thanks in advance S.

Aliboon · Post by **Aliboon** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:46 am

I think your chaos need rerolls more than the mino.

If the mino didn't get mutations on normal rolls on chaos then i wouldn't ever take them as they are unreliable turnover machines with AV8. But tentacles on a mino would probably make them worth having.

Fassbinder75 · Post by **Fassbinder75** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:42 am

I say get the Mino. Horns + Frenzy makes for fun, if slightly unreliable blitzes. One support is enough to get a couple of 3 dice blocks usually, mitigating the need for Block somewhat.

purdindas · Post by **purdindas** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:25 am

You need 3 rerolls first IMO.

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:45 pm

Kick: absolutely

3rd Reroll: You leveled up that much with only TWO rerolls and the lack of ball handling skills that Chaos inherently suffers from?!!! You've either had this team a LONG time; are playing slackwits; or are a god among Chaos coaches.... Short version: take the reroll....

Minotaur: He/she/it is a superb "Big Guy".... Unfortunately, you need that 3rd reroll imho....

Carnis · Post by **Carnis** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:17 pm

Not kick, wrestle. Kick is pretty overrated compared to benefits of having more blocking/tackling skills. Wrestle also buys you time, as you won't need tackle so soon.

Normally I'd assume every1 starts with 3 RRs anyway (4x CW, 7x BM 3x RR = 1000k).

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:48 pm

Except on speedy teams, Kick is at best a #2 selection on a player who already has Block. If your team is loaded with MA7+ or AG4, or if you can't handle a good grind or force a 2TTD attempt, Kick is a butt-saver and an SPP machine. If not, it's a reasonable gimmick.

Skarsnikk · Post by **Skarsnikk** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:37 pm

[quote="Digger Goreman"]
3rd Reroll: You leveled up that much with only TWO rerolls and the lack of ball handling skills that Chaos inherently suffers from?!!! You've either had this team a LONG time; are playing slackwits; or are a god among Chaos coaches.... Short version: take the reroll....
quote]

Had this team for 6 games 5 wins, 1 draw.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:09 pm

How many completions? Gratuitous throwing early in your development is the key to winning with Chaos, unless you really get the blood flowing. Of course, if Nuffle likes to eat your opponents, you'll win and improve a lot anyway. 6 games is a poor sample, and yields a lot of outliers. Are you doing a lot of damage, or are you flinging a lot of passes? If it's the latter, how are you doing it on just 2 TRR? I can build a Chaos monster at about that pace, but I find that to do so I need every re-roll I can muster (and two Extra Arms guys or a +AG guy). Even if you can risk losing control of the ball, you often need the TRR to get to the end of your turn.

On the 200k question, take the TRR! This team wants 4 TRRs ultimately. How did you end up with only two TRRs and no Minotaur, anyway? Did you start with a reserve? An apoth? Saving for a mino once you have 3 RRs is good: the Mino is a little risky, but he's a killing machine and makes a great safety (nobody plays man like a man-bull...).

On the skilly guy, take another Extra Arms, so you have two Comp targets. You still have two rookie CWs, you need receivers to get them Block. Or take Wrestle, and then take Extra Arms on a Block guy.

Skarsnikk · Post by **Skarsnikk** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:31 pm

I've had a few completions as I often pass the ball upfield and to be honest I guess I've been lucky.
I started with a extra man, which in hindsight was prob not the best idea, but he has come in useful.
On the subject of extra arms guy he's primarily my guy for picking the ball up and running it downfield, throwing if neccesary for a clean get away, this has saved on using re-rolls.

Injury causing has been pretty good but not out-standing.

kizkiz · Post by **kizkiz** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:50 pm

I have a minotaur with 12 casualties in 13 games.
His first skill was claw.
I do everything needed during the turn, then as long as i don't have an urgent blitz, i use the mino to blitz someone. Usually a big guy, as the claw opens them up so easy, and he blitzes on ST6 with horns. He's a brilliant can opener for removing all the big guys on the opposition team

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:49 pm

kizkiz wrote:I have a minotaur with 12 casualties in 13 games.
His first skill was claw.
I do everything needed during the turn, then as long as i don't have an urgent blitz, i use the mino to blitz someone. Usually a big guy, as the claw opens them up so easy, and he blitzes on ST6 with horns. He's a brilliant can opener for removing all the big guys on the opposition team

WORD!

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:02 pm

A Minotaur with Claw is pretty cool.

Assuming 3d/2d, which you'll get a lot, a Minotaur gets:

Turnover: 80/1458 ≈ 5.5%
Nothing: 243/1458 = 1/6 ≈ 16.7%
Push Twice: 105/1458 ≈ 7.2%
Push and Knockdown: 855/1458 ≈ 58.6%
Push Twice and Knockdown: 175/1458 ≈ 12.0%

Total chance to inflict a Knockdown: 1030/1458.
Chance to penetrate armor w/o MB: 5/12
Chance to penetrate armor w/ MB: 2/12

Chance to inflict a casualty: [(5/18 x 5/12)+(1/6 x 1/6)] x 1030/1458
= (25/216+1/36) x 1030/1458 = 31/216 x 1030/1458 = 10.14%.

Minotaurs and Snow Trolls, baby. Where else is a guy with one skill going to average 0.2 SPP per block?

kizkiz · Post by **kizkiz** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:16 am

Forgot to add. Second skill is juggernaut.
He doesn't fail many blitzes anymore

Skarsnikk · Post by **Skarsnikk** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:18 pm

I've been through my stats and they read like this:

6 Games played 5 won 1 drawn
12 TD scored 4 Against
5 Completions
13 Injuries caused 3 suffered (including 1 dead)

I'm thinking a third re-roll will be next purchase and then save for the minotaur, as you guys have suggested.