Slann guide

[Ikterus]

I feel the slann catchers are overpriced, the linemen are fine (10k for leap on 1-3 players would be cheap, but you gotta take it on 12++), and the blitzers are seriously overpriced. The catchers are nice, but MA7 and no dodge means they die over and over again. They'll never oneturn either, unlike their gutter running cousins, who come with dodge.. too.

I strongly disagree.

AG4 Leap and VLL from the start is just SOOO good. No other player in the game can Leap on 2+ without AG increases or mutations.

Also the massed Leap is very usefull and a constant head ache for your opp.

Yes, the blitzers are costly but the team has to have drawbacks too to get balanced...

If you want to ignore the Blitzers, try out my "Catchers galore" suggested starting line up.

[Mad Banker]

The second half I was far more agrerssive and I found this to be the key.

Exactly my view.
IMHO, Slanns win their games with an aggressive defense.

The kick skill is key for this and the catchers are just wonderful for capitalizing on a good kick.

[Ikterus]

The second half I was far more agrerssive and I found this to be the key.

Exactly my view.
IMHO, Slanns win their games with an aggressive defense.

The kick skill is key for this and the catchers are just wonderful for capitalizing on a good kick.

You're both right!

Do I emphasize this enough in the playbook?

[Craigtw]

I feel the slann catchers are overpriced, the linemen are fine (10k for leap on 1-3 players would be cheap, but you gotta take it on 12++), and the blitzers are seriously overpriced.

I disagree with you on all counts here.

If anything, I think that the linemen are underpriced having the same stats as a human lineman with Leap and VLL for only a 10K increase is HUGE.

Catchers are very worth their cost. The ability to leap on a 2+ and their general AG4 is worth every penny.

Given the extrordinary value of the linemen and the fact that the blizters are all that (and a bag of chips) plus all the extra skills they have, they are very worth their cost, you just have to be patient to get their necessary block/wrestle skills.

[Carnis]

If anything, I think that the linemen are underpriced having the same stats as a human lineman with Leap and VLL for only a 10K increase is HUGE.

Catchers are very worth their cost. The ability to leap on a 2+ and their general AG4 is worth every penny.

Given the extrordinary value of the linemen and the fact that the blizters are all that (and a bag of chips) plus all the extra skills they have, they are very worth their cost, you just have to be patient to get their necessary block/wrestle skills.

I used to share all of these opinions with you.

..

Then I played 25 games with a slann team.

[GalakStarscraper]

By the way ... I do get a chuckle that so many folks don't think +MA, Diving Tackle and Jump Up are worth 50k. He's also the only player in the game with GSA access without a negatrait ... something that once upon a time was declared as broken skill access.

If you assume the Lineman is fairly costed ... then you are looking at him costing 20k less than a Lineman developed the same way. And while the skills are not a pure combo ... the ability to use Diving Tackle without the 3 MA penalty is a combo ... even if you don't think its worth much.

And for all the comments on the thread .... the Slann are very close to being too good from the BBRC's point of view as overall they are much closer to the 50% upper limit on winning we gave them than the to the 40% floor.

So really ... if they came with Wrestle / Jump Up instead of Diving Tackle / Jump Up ... odds are we would have changed it from Wrestle / Jump Up to something like Diving Tackle / Jump Up because the team would have been too good (ie over 50%). Or if the Blitzer was 10k cheaper ... it might just be we would have raised him to his current price (again to get them under 50%). So you REALLY have to keep this in mind when you kvetch about the team or the team's blitzers.

Galak

[voyagers_uk]

when you look at us, do we appear as Ants to you too?

mind your step, we wouldn't want to squish Ikterus

[Craigtw]

I used to share all of these opinions with you.

..

Then I played 25 games with a slann team.

Well maybe you are either very unlucky or a very bad coach!

[GalakStarscraper]

when you look at us, do we appear as Ants to you too?

I'm so close to just being one of the little people again (as much as a Storm Giant can be a little person) that I'm getting very happy.

I for one definitely believe its time for the BBRC to go into a loooonggg hibernation. I think BB will be better off for it.

Galak

[Jural]

I used to share all of these opinions with you.

..

Then I played 25 games with a slann team.

I haven't played 25 yet, but I find the team really fun except against the most punsihing of opponents- but definitely a team with a sweet spot (about 10-12 advances team wide) and a team prone to entering into a high TV death spiral, where your earnings are unable to replace your casualties after you get two or three good players on your team.

I have played two teams about 10 games each. so far, fun.

[Funksultan]

If anything, I think that the linemen are underpriced having the same stats as a human lineman with Leap and VLL for only a 10K increase is HUGE.

Well, that's a matter of opinon. VLL and Leap are great, if they are useful for that player. If I could buy a Minotaur with strong arm and diving tackle for 160k, would I? No. Sure, it's only 10k more, and I'm getting strong arm and diving tackle! That's a 50k value for 10k...

Skills are only valuable when they serve some purpose. Ask a bunch of chaos players if they'd give up horns on their beastmen for a 10k reduction. I'd bet most serious coaches would jump at the chance. Sure, it's 20k of value for 10k, but the truth is, after 2 players with horns, it's not nearly as valuable. You'll have a horns player who can make the blitz, or you'll have someone more important to blitz with.

Going back to the Slann, it's unlikely there will be a need for that many players (with ag 3) to leap. It's just too risky, and thus, all that extra VLL and jump makes some bloat.

[GalakStarscraper]

It's just too risky, and thus, all that extra VLL and jump makes some bloat.

True ... but at least compared to a Beastman ... you can actually use more the skills on them more than one of them a turn. (same price)

Galak

[Ikterus]

If anything, I think that the linemen are underpriced having the same stats as a human lineman with Leap and VLL for only a 10K increase is HUGE.

Well, that's a matter of opinon. VLL and Leap are great, if they are useful for that player. If I could buy a Minotaur with strong arm and diving tackle for 160k, would I? No. Sure, it's only 10k more, and I'm getting strong arm and diving tackle! That's a 50k value for 10k...

Skills are only valuable when they serve some purpose. Ask a bunch of chaos players if they'd give up horns on their beastmen for a 10k reduction. I'd bet most serious coaches would jump at the chance. Sure, it's 20k of value for 10k, but the truth is, after 2 players with horns, it's not nearly as valuable. You'll have a horns player who can make the blitz, or you'll have someone more important to blitz with.

Going back to the Slann, it's unlikely there will be a need for that many players (with ag 3) to leap. It's just too risky, and thus, all that extra VLL and jump makes some bloat.

What is your point? Are they no fun to play? Are they no good? Are they broken?

The thing is, many people like to play them and they bring a different approach to the game.

I'm glad they're here and I think they are really well designed.

Yes, the Blitzers are not perfectly balanced but like Galak said, if they were the team would be too good.

The Blitzers are an enigma and even though I advise not to use more than two on a team, I like them I wouldn't want to see them changed.

Also: I'd like this discussion to be about the playbook I wrote, for a debate of Slann in general - start a new thread!

[Craigtw]

If anything, I think that the linemen are underpriced having the same stats as a human lineman with Leap and VLL for only a 10K increase is HUGE.

Well, that's a matter of opinon. VLL and Leap are great, if they are useful for that player. If I could buy a Minotaur with strong arm and diving tackle for 160k, would I? No. Sure, it's only 10k more, and I'm getting strong arm and diving tackle! That's a 50k value for 10k...

Skills are only valuable when they serve some purpose. Ask a bunch of chaos players if they'd give up horns on their beastmen for a 10k reduction. I'd bet most serious coaches would jump at the chance. Sure, it's 20k of value for 10k, but the truth is, after 2 players with horns, it's not nearly as valuable. You'll have a horns player who can make the blitz, or you'll have someone more important to blitz with.

Going back to the Slann, it's unlikely there will be a need for that many players (with ag 3) to leap. It's just too risky, and thus, all that extra VLL and jump makes some bloat.

It may be risky, but just having the option to do these things with every player on the team makes them especially difficult to defend against.

You cannot make a fair comparison between a team where every player has two skills which are perfectly complimenting to a BG with two skills that are relatively useless on him. I mean why not say that you only pay 10K more to give snotlings Multiple Block and Break Tackle?

[SillySod]

It's just too risky, and thus, all that extra VLL and jump makes some bloat.

True ... but at least compared to a Beastman ... you can actually use more the skills on them more than one of them a turn. (same price)

Galak

Exactly. So the Slann linemen are pretty much bang on the correct price.

The catchers are also pretty much bang on, they perform a similar function to gutter runners but are far more fragile, slower, and therefore less flexible. A reasonable tradeoff for their leapiness.

The blitzers skill access is not relevent to its price. Pact marauders are perfectly well balanced despite their skill access. While you can do a cost comparison on the blitzers bonus skills... I dont think thats terribly fair because no one in their right mind would skill a player up with DT and JU and actually I wouldnt be taking +Ma either. Guard, block/wrestle, sidestep, and dodge would all come before any of the bonuses the blitzers have.


The DT/JU combo is extremely weak as combos go. Generally the "penalty" for DT is of trivial importance.... if the skill even gets used (rather than having a passive effect) then its very much a case of "it worked" or "it failed". If it worked then you should have the upper hand and wont much care about the extra movement (you are proably right next to the ball in any case). If it failed then the ball/target is far more likely to be safe than far away. The number of times you're going to care about jumping upafter diving are few and far between. Potentially the skills have a nice "cant dodge and cant block me without retaliation" combination effect but you really have to have sidestep too for that to be worth anything.

Dont get me wrong, DT is a neat skill. However, its always a little disapointing even on St4/AG4 blodge sidestep players. The same goes for JU.