Orc metagame question

[stashman]

Just don't go too far or you will not win many games:

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=630229

It's my team!!! Well, I do it for fun. Not a good solid build, but a fun one. Don't build my teams like that "IRL Tabletop" games.

[AswanJaguar]

Amazing, kudos to you

[Carnis]

Actually how "solidified" are the tactics for Orcs? Is there the One True Build out there somewhere?

I would think purple's LRB4 orcs are a classic example of the "solidified" tactic for building orcs. The only thing that's missing is piling on because.. well it's an LRB4 team. Why it's also missing a dirty player lineman I have no idea .

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=558790

[mattgslater]

See, I'm not at all convinced that such a "solidified" strategy really exists. I think individual coaching proclivities are the biggest driver in, say, the proper mix of Guard, MB and positioning skills, or in the relationships of the "back two" and reserves. There are quite a few effective ways to build a Power Nine, and the Orc Nine has more options open to it than the other P9 teams (except perpetual Chaos).

Really, I think there are two drivers in the Orc team: the mix of Guard, MB and SF/SS in the P9, and the ratio of Throwers/Linos/Gobs in the back 2 and bench. Killer Orcs tend to focus on MB, with either all Guard over SF or a healthy mix of the two, while stymie Orcs tend to split the three skills evenly, or focus on SF/SS. All such teams take toolbox skills on Blitzers, and Block on BOBs, so that sort of stuff isn't so much an indicator. I guess the investment in PO might be an indicator.

As far as the back two and bench go, I think that's a bigger indicator of coaching style, at least on sub-peak teams. There's no wrong answer there, as each player can do things the others can't. Linemen make good Dirty Players, and are the only real Wrestle options on the team (Blitzers have Block, BOBs are too slow). Orc Kickers are rare, but it's not because they're not good, so much as because Wrestle comes with a G-skill track (Frenzy or Tackle), DP'ers tend to get ejected, and it's unusual to build more than 2 linos. Most teams run a Thrower on offense, though that's not necessary. Like any AG3 race, an offensive Thrower and a generalist Thrower is a good combo. Throwers are AV8, which tends to make them targets but doesn't appreciably up your body count, which is another argument for either having two or taking SH on a Blitzer. Gobs, of course, play off-type for the race, which can be a lot of fun and allow for a lot of options.

My conventional track on the Power Nine is:

Troll and BOBs: I try to get one Guard player quickly. After that, I focus on Block and Stand Firm, except BOB#4, with whom I go Grab-Guard. Format tells me what to do with the #3 skill on BOBs: if I'm facing a lot of bash, then I take more Guard. If I'm facing a lot of speed, I take Mighty Blow. Doubles might be SS, but is usually ignored. I ignore 10 and 11 too, though if I get a 10 on the #3 or later roll, I might take +AV or +MA, depending on what else the guy has.

Blitzers: Two of my top three skills on every single Blitzer are Mighty Blow and Stand Firm (or Side Step). The third is a toolbox/hunter skill, like Frenzy, Tackle or Guard (which in this context is toolbox). I like the following tracks:
Hunter: Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Juggernaut
Flanker: Guard, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Piling On
Winger (Zig): Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Tackle,
Free Midfielder (from Zig Wing track): Stand Firm, Jump Up, Mighty Blow, Piling On
Winger (Inverse): Side Step, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Grab
Ace: +AG, Stand Firm, Pro, Guard
Winger (Zig): +ST, Stand Firm, Mighty Blow, Grab

As far as the back players go, I don't think you can go too far wrong. I don't think you need a dedicated reserve, but a Wrestle Lino is as good as you can ask for. I like to run one full-time Thrower and three specialists: an offensive Thrower, a DP Lino and a Goblin (for tempo). I used to give the Goblin Catch. That really helps on what he's there for, but I'm not convinced that it's worth the TV. One truth about Goblins is that while you can skill them quickly, they have two short tracks, one of which is hoggy, and a poor skill memory (AV7/Stunty), so they're better as either a threat or a commitment, but nothing in between.

[sunnyside]

Actually how "solidified" are the tactics for Orcs? Is there the One True Build out there somewhere?

I would think purple's LRB4 orcs are a classic example of the "solidified" tactic for building orcs. The only thing that's missing is piling on because.. well it's an LRB4 team. Why it's also missing a dirty player lineman I have no idea .

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=558790

Hey wait a minute. That looks a lot like a more developed version of the "don't do this" stymie Orc team. That's assuming older skills are on the left side, indicating that MB was taken after the guardspam, and probably only after many many games for those bobs.

Also I'm going to guess the lack of dirty player has to do with having guard lineorcs, and wanting a star player slot. Though I hear fouling was bigger in LRB4.

Anyway here's what I think I'm starting to distill:

Block is the first skill for bobs, at least the first ones to skill. After that probably Guard on the first one to get a second skill, and a blend of MB, guard, and SF after that. Avoid PO on these guys.

Blitzers are more varied, but I'm seeing a lot of Jump Up being the clearly dominant doubles choice, especially if early. Guard is still popuar in blitzers, but killers skill are more popular relative to bobs, and you'll want some PO.

Lineorcs like wrestle, and wrestle likes frenzy (as do I), but fend might be a good choice if one is concerned about a glut of block/mb/claw/PO players. A dirty player lineorc is useful in clearing them, and useful in general.

One offensive thrower is probably a good idea. Utility thrower maybe.

After that it comes down to how you want to populate your bench.

I'm also sort of noting that you guys don't seem especially concerned about the claw slayers. I expected that, in a perpetual league setting, they'd be the Orcs biggest source of SPP loss when present in a good third of the teams played, and quite possibly a large source of lost games when the other team gains an early numerical advantage since even with OTTD players on hand a 2-1 grind would still be a 2-2 tie vs agility teams.

[mattgslater]

I'm also sort of noting that you guys don't seem especially concerned about the claw slayers.

Claw is a serious concern for Orcs. I just don't think that the answer is in specifically anti-Claw skills. There are many ways to handle Claw/MB/PO players that don't take dedicated investment. Few teams have a ton of those guys: Dirty Player is a big help, as is going after them with your own hunters. Receiving first if you win the coin-toss is another good trick, letting you keep a hat on him in the first half, when any damage dealt means the most, and getting a good shot to get rid of him. Getting a numerical advantage (or faking one with Guard and Stand Firm) really helps. By contrast, Fend seems second-rate on a team with SF spam.

[Carnis]

I honestly think, that if you are facing a coach who is willing to go all out to ruin your team and has 3 proper claw slayers with a solid line of guard there's NOTHING you as an orc player can do to stop the mayhem. There's a lot of things you can do to win the game, though.

And as for the stymie comment. For the record, guard is the biggest basher skill, also the biggest antibasher skill. He who gets to block gets to bash. MB/PO etc come to play after you got to block.

[mattgslater]

I don't think you have to blindly take all the Guard in the world to bash optimally. There are lots of ways to engineer assists without wasting actions. Guard is the easy one... but that's all it does.