Both Down Newest info!

[Kilowog2814]

Hehe awesome.
Now Scott's going to get a big head about approving or not approving teams.

As Scott's local franchisee (is that a word?), I have been getting that label around here.

Good! We need more people pushing for the Fluff back in the game.
Games are more fun when it's Dandashire Fairfolk vs the Kelinor Nightmares instead of We Elves vs Yo' Mama or whatever.

Wear your label proudly. Both Down Approved!

[Jonny_P]

I'm all for the Both Down stamp at next year's Chaos Cup. Maybe even a contest or raffle for anyone who got the stamp of approval.

[Pitch Invader]

a stamp of approval needs a stamp.

I now expect both of you to get Both Down Approved Tramp Stamps.

[Jonny_P]

I've already got a pic of the spot on Fat Finley's body where it would go. #CoinSlot Approved

Also...sorry Dave for forgetting to talk about Painting Awards on last Zlurpcast... this is what happens when we don't use completed notes.

[fatfinley]

I've already got a pic of the spot on Fat Finley's body where it would go. #CoinSlot Approved

Also...sorry Dave for forgetting to talk about Painting Awards on last Zlurpcast... this is what happens when we don't use completed notes.

No worries Both Down has captured the Chaos Cup experience 3 years in a row. We are the greatest infomercial podcast for CC!

[Stimme]

"Yes, I will!"

Admit that I did it.

Just a reminder of the fun time we had during the match. Make sure it does not leave any stains on your new shirt.

[Kilowog2814]

"Yes, I will!"

Admit that I did it.

Just a reminder of the fun time we had during the match. Make sure it does not leave any stains on your new shirt.

You're an odd fellow... but you're alright.
Hilarious

[fatfinley]

"Yes, I will!"

Admit that I did it.

Just a reminder of the fun time we had during the match. Make sure it does not leave any stains on your new shirt.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[SunDevil]

S&S!

Listened to your CC ep while I drove 3 1/2 hours to St. Louis for a toy show yesterday. Left at 4am and drove most of it in the dark. So I spent hours in the dark listening to your voices.

Good work, as always! We purposely waited on our CC ep so they would not all come out at once and will release ours next. I'll respond to many of the points raised by you guys in that ep so be sure to listen if you want to hear yourselves talked about!

Steve, any time you want to switch co-hosts for an ep, let me know! I think it could be a lot of fun!

We need to find an excuse to do a show with all four of us together, via Skype, in a roundtable format. I think that would be a lot of fun - we could even do two sections together - a 3DB section and a BD section. Use the show for the next episode of both our podcasts. Anyway, just a thought...

[fatfinley]

Both Down Episode 24 – U Got the Look – Welcome to Both Down Episode 24! We cover all kinds of goodness such as the Blood Bowl kick off table, Dragonfyre Blood Bowl League, and Nuffleween. Plus some Shout Outs and a Ginger television show rant. Now lock the door behind you and find your happy place because it’s time to listen to another Ginger Badger filled episode of BOTH DOWN!

Episode Breakdown by time:
o Blood Bowl Talk: Kick Off Table – 10:35
o Behind the Fluff: Dragonfyre Blood Bowl League – 31:45
o Tournament Talk: Nuffleween – 55:35
o Did You Know? with Snobb Costas – 1:07:31
o Shout Outs – 1:09:45
o Gingers Ranting – 1:12:00

Check it out http://bothdown.com/

[siggyllama]

Good discussion of the Kickoff Table. Now let me tell you where I think you're wrong

A few results that you saw as neutral, I see as favoring the offense (if only slightly).

Changing Weather: 3 of the 4 bad weather results impact ball-handling and therefore favor the defense, but the more likely results favor the offense: if you happen to already have bad weather, Changing Weather will tend to remove it; and if you had nice weather, the extra scatter increases the chance of a touchback, which also favors the offense.

Pitch Invasion: if the number of stunned players on each side is relatively even, then this result generally favors the offense. Not only do they get to react first to the new board position, and stand their players up first, but they have fewer tackle zones to deal with, which can be huge. (Corollary: being short-handed is generally worse for defense than it is for offense -- which also makes Sweltering Heat slightly better for offense.)

Also, I think you're setting up false dichotomies by judging Blitz directly against High Kick (and Perfect Defense against Quick Snap). The probabilities of both the offense-friendly results are higher (11.1% each) than those of the defense-friendly ones (8.3% each). Add in Changing Weather and Pitch Invasion, and the table as a whole favors the offense; so to my mind, it's right that the defense-friendly results have more punch.

Personally, I just think the Blitz! result is fun. Suffering the Blitz is a rite of passage for every Blood Bowl coach, and learning to set up your offense in anticipation of one is a mark of maturity. Having said that, I agree that they break individual tournament games*. Underworld Cup this past weekend had a nice tweak, where only 3 players (not in TZs) could get actions on a Blitz. But I think limiting to 1 player is okay, too (think Troy Polamalu diving over the line).

(I had one tournament ruined by Wood Elves getting 3 consecutive Blitzes against me -- and he had a hypno-gazer. Try protecting the ball against that. It was fun to watch though!)

[Stimme]

I agree with siggyllama on most of his points, especially pitch invasion. Even if the numbers of players affected is comparable, the fact that the defense suffers from the effect one turn longer makes a huge difference. Last year's Jingle Bowl I had the pleasure of experiencing twice a pitch invasion with me having +2 FAME. The consequences were ridiculous.

Considering the Blitz: As much as it can screw you over, an event like this has to exist to prevent the offense of going all in and (hypothetically) positioning their whole Norse team on the LoS. Softening it a bit could be an option. But not to the extent that only one single player can perform an action. I would rarely send in any player on his own, knowing that he will likely not catch the ball and just get blitzed and potentially killed the next turn. I would like to know how others experienced the Underworld cup three players tweak.

[Kilowog2814]

My phone hates me, so no quoting for me, but let me address the points presented.

Changing Weather: You present the supposition that it benefits the offense because the majority of the time you'll get perfect so it may negate the bad weather or help the ball go out for a touch back. However, while you can think of situations these results help the offense, I can provide as many situations where they help the defense.
Ultimately the randomness still makes this a neutral result. The game itself is not favoring one side or the other.

Pitch invasion: Your argument is if the number of people affected are equal, the offense has an advantage. This is true, but only in an abstract way. If there's an uneven number of players on each team, it changes things.
I will agree to the point that the defense being affected a turn longer than the offense is an advantage, that doesn't change my opinion.
This is still a neutral result since the game doesn't decide what happens. Fame, dice rolls, positioning, advantage, etc. All those factors have to be included to see who gets a true advantage. The game does favor either team in the implementation of it.

Blitz: it is fun. No question. I love when I get it and hate when my opponent does. I just don't see it as fair. Stimme might be right about one guy never being used since he'd be defenseless, so maybe the three rule would be best.

I am curious why you believe the matching up provides a false dichotomy and your probability numbers. I admittedly didn't do any research on the probability...

Good points though my opinion remains unchanged

[Jonny_P]

Blitz should be a 7 on the kickoff table.

Always vote extra mayhem.

[Kilowog2814]