Amazons Fantasy Football Team from Necrom Studio

[Darkson]

I have been delaying this because I was holding out hope that Necrom would come through for me.

Sods Law says Necrom will deliver the day after you pay for and receive another Amazon team.

I'd say not to be sworn off crowdfunding due to one bad experience - as Galak said, it's more a case of being careful in what you back. I've backed 30+ campaigns, and (so far) not had any non-deliver (although some have been delayed). Perhaps just back campaigns from companies you've seen that have fulfilled in the past. Also, don't pledge more than you're prepared to lose.

[Stout Youngblood]

Willy's Amazons do look amazing but the issue I have with them is their size. My preference is for 28mm figures. That is why I chose Impact's Amazon team. I know they were part of their kickstarter but not sure if they are in their store, yet.

[Darkson]

That is why I chose Impact's Amazon team. I know they were part of their kickstarter but not sure if they are in their store, yet.

Yes they are: http://www.impactminiatures.com/index.p ... id=TC_AMZN

[Stout Youngblood]

Thanks, Darkson, Missed them on the Impact site while viewing from my small phone.

[JT-Y]

The scale of the Willy Zons is alright. Not so large as much of their stuff. And the sculpts are insane. RuMor has some very real talent.

[traveller]

And the sculpts are insane. RuMor has some very real talent.

Oh, yes!!
Traveller

[DinoTitanedition]

I had to dig this out. In another post nice miniatures for an orcteam were asked for and Necrom was mentioned. Now I was wondering....since nothing happened here and the minis probably still weren`t delivered to the backers, how is this actually handled? Isn`t it "stealing"? Did anyone try to sew Necrom or it`s owner? Don`t get this wrong, it is just curiousity if involving an advocate would actually work. How are the Kickstarter rules for a case like this, where the project is successfully funded, but the project initiator does not deliver?

[Darkson]

How are the Kickstarter rules for a case like this, where the project is successfully funded, but the project initiator does not deliver?

Indiegogo, not Kickstarter - different companies.

Kickstarter basically washes it's hands of all responsibility though, and I expect Indiegogo is the same, as long as they both get their cut.

[Gaixo]

I was just thinking about this yesterday.

[JT-Y]

You back something on Kickstarter or Indiegogo and you aren't buying anything; you are investing in something that may or may not come to fruition and you are agreeing that if it doesn't that you lost the stake. But if it does you get your stuff.
It's like investing in a company but instead of getting shares and cash you just get some toys, or whatever.
The 'crowd' is giving the start up project funding rather than a single investor,but the 'crowd' waives its stake if the start up project falls flat.

So yeah, sue them by all means. It'll cost you your solicitors time to explain the above in more complex and complete terms and there it ends.

This is by no means the only project that has failed, people get screwed all the time. In the gaming world it's rare, but there have been a couple of gigantic failures that have seen hundreds of thousands of people out of pocket. Any dick can get a set of 3D renders and talk about awesome rules, but that is not a product ready to sell.
There are a few manufacturers of fantasy football teams making use of crowdfunding and they do it well. But recognise that they are doing it to cover the expense of casting models, and that they are already familiar with the costs and process.

If you don't like the risks of gambling as an investor and aren't prepared to take the risk, don't do it. After the fact and after signing up and agreeing to all the T&C's is a bit late to cry theft.

Oh, and this project failed because the guy behind it was a monumental bellend who didn't understand the process of taking a 3D render and turning it into a miniature, so he pissed away the investment from his backers on a series of moronic errors.
That's the risk.

If he should read the above and disagree, tough siht, he's still a monumental bellend.

[lauth81]

You back something on Kickstarter or Indiegogo and you aren't buying anything; you are investing in something that may or may not come to fruition and you are agreeing that if it doesn't that you lost the stake. But if it does you get your stuff.
It's like investing in a company but instead of getting shares and cash you just get some toys, or whatever.
The 'crowd' is giving the start up project funding rather than a single investor,but the 'crowd' waives its stake if the start up project falls flat.

So yeah, sue them by all means. It'll cost you your solicitors time to explain the above in more complex and complete terms and there it ends.

This is by no means the only project that has failed, people get screwed all the time. In the gaming world it's rare, but there have been a couple of gigantic failures that have seen hundreds of thousands of people out of pocket. Any dick can get a set of 3D renders and talk about awesome rules, but that is not a product ready to sell.
There are a few manufacturers of fantasy football teams making use of crowdfunding and they do it well. But recognise that they are doing it to cover the expense of casting models, and that they are already familiar with the costs and process.

If you don't like the risks of gambling as an investor and aren't prepared to take the risk, don't do it. After the fact and after signing up and agreeing to all the T&C's is a bit late to cry theft.

Oh, and this project failed because the guy behind it was a monumental bellend who didn't understand the process of taking a 3D render and turning it into a miniature, so he pissed away the investment from his backers on a series of moronic errors.
That's the risk.

If he should read the above and disagree, tough siht, he's still a monumental bellend.

What he said.

If you pledge on any crowdfunding site you don't buy anything, you invest money and hope to get a profit at of it, aka some models or whatnot.
Even if the companies putting up a project make you believe that, it's NOT a sales channel.

The same caution and due diligence you would exercise with investing money traditionally should be done with any crowdfunding project.

[theghr]

You back something on Kickstarter or Indiegogo and you aren't buying anything; you are investing in something that may or may not come to fruition and you are agreeing that if it doesn't that you lost the stake. But if it does you get your stuff.
It's like investing in a company but instead of getting shares and cash you just get some toys, or whatever.
The 'crowd' is giving the start up project funding rather than a single investor,but the 'crowd' waives its stake if the start up project falls flat.

So yeah, sue them by all means. It'll cost you your solicitors time to explain the above in more complex and complete terms and there it ends.

This is by no means the only project that has failed, people get screwed all the time. In the gaming world it's rare, but there have been a couple of gigantic failures that have seen hundreds of thousands of people out of pocket. Any dick can get a set of 3D renders and talk about awesome rules, but that is not a product ready to sell.
There are a few manufacturers of fantasy football teams making use of crowdfunding and they do it well. But recognise that they are doing it to cover the expense of casting models, and that they are already familiar with the costs and process.

If you don't like the risks of gambling as an investor and aren't prepared to take the risk, don't do it. After the fact and after signing up and agreeing to all the T&C's is a bit late to cry theft.

Oh, and this project failed because the guy behind it was a monumental bellend who didn't understand the process of taking a 3D render and turning it into a miniature, so he pissed away the investment from his backers on a series of moronic errors.
That's the risk.

If he should read the above and disagree, tough siht, he's still a monumental bellend.

What he said.

If you pledge on any crowdfunding site you don't buy anything, you invest money and hope to get a profit at of it, aka some models or whatnot.
Even if the companies putting up a project make you believe that, it's NOT a sales channel.

The same caution and due diligence you would exercise with investing money traditionally should be done with any crowdfunding project.

That may be, but if the creator turns out to be severely mishandling the funds then of course you're entitled to be mad about it. Anyways, i dont believe the Necrom brand is strong after all this.

[DinoTitanedition]

If you don't like the risks of gambling as an investor and aren't prepared to take the risk, don't do it. After the fact and after signing up and agreeing to all the T&C's is a bit late to cry theft.

I am sorry, it was a mistake of formulation, since I am no native speaker. Of course it isn`t theft, that would mean that someone has to take something from me against my will. In this case someone made a promise to deliver a good if a certain financial goal is reached. It is also seen to be a successful funding, if the financial goal has been reached, so we are not talking about a "failed fundraise project", to clarify that.

In this case, someone taking somone elses money due to a delivery promise and not delivering afterwards is called fraud, if I remember it correctly. I do not need a lawyer to know that and I am aware of the risk of loosing the money if the funding goal is not reached. To my understanding that is how Indiegogo and Kickstarter define the risk of financing a project on their platforms. Correct me if I am wrong.

So, now that it is clear, that it was a successful project, and the company has not kept it`s delivery promise, it seems like a logical step to take it to a court?

As I have stated:

Don`t get this wrong, it is just curiousity if involving an advocate would actually work.

Pure curiousity. I have lost nothing in this fundraiser, since I generally do not invest in projects like this. If someone takes my question personal, please don`t feel offended, since I`m looking at this simply out of interest and want to stay objective on this.

Speaking of - does fraud not usually end up with some time in jail? I am no lawyer, so I do not know how that kind of stuff is handled, especially on an international basis and again, it is curiousity, no offense.

[Rolex]

If you don't like the risks of gambling as an investor and aren't prepared to take the risk, don't do it. After the fact and after signing up and agreeing to all the T&C's is a bit late to cry theft.

I am sorry, it was a mistake of formulation, since I am no native speaker. Of course it isn`t theft, that would mean that someone has to take something from me against my will. In this case someone made a promise to deliver a good if a certain financial goal is reached. It is also seen to be a successful funding, if the financial goal has been reached, so we are not talking about a "failed fundraise project", to clarify that.

In this case, someone taking somone elses money due to a delivery promise and not delivering afterwards is called fraud, if I remember it correctly. I do not need a lawyer to know that and I am aware of the risk of loosing the money if the funding goal is not reached. To my understanding that is how Indiegogo and Kickstarter define the risk of financing a project on their platforms. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are very wrong.

If the founding goal is not reached you lose no money. Kickstarter simply does not take the money and indiegogo refunds you.
A failed project is a project that does not produce his objectives and so it does not deliver what promised.

If someone puts up a fake project with the objective of taking money from people with no intention of keeping his promisese, that is fraud.
If someone cannot deliver due to miscalculations or unforseen problems, that is not fraud. Just failure to deliver.

So you cannot go to the police in the same way a bank cannot go to the police and have someone arrested because he fails to give money back.
Because it is not a crime.

But you can sue them.
But often it is not worth the bother (it costs more than what you can possibly get).

[DinoTitanedition]

Aha, so that is the difference between Kickstarter and Indigogo. They seemed pretty alike to me. (....what is the difference between wrong and very wrong?)

I also just did a little googling. Other cases like this exist and differ between negligence, culpable negligence and contract negligence. I guess that would most likely lead to a won case in front of court. What`s the law situation on that in the EU? In Germany you ususally do not bear the costs if you win.

What would also be interesting how the backers could be compensated. I know of one german player who tried to contact Necrom and at least get the molding shapes to produce the miniatures himself.