BBRC Hot List - 2003

[DoubleSkulls]

The rules on Fouling do not state where defensive assists must stand.

HUH?

pp 24 "Defending players may also give assists to a player that is being fouled."

But there is nothing to say that they have to stand next to the fouler, victim or anywhere on the pitch.

The section should be cleared up to say that the same rules apply as for assisting of blocks.

[BigD]

Just going through the list. I like the idea of Jump Up being made just a bit more useful BUT I would then suggest that Jump Up is taken away from the Witch Elves. Its just way too powerful for them and if done this way then effectively they're only made stronger. Maybe increase the cost of a Witch Elf by 20K to offset the change as well?

BigD

[Agentrock]

Its just way too powerful for them and if done this way then effectively they're only made stronger. Maybe increase the cost of a Witch Elf by 20K to offset the change as well?BigD

It'll make them a bigger target than they already are, that much is a fact.

[wesleytj]

Just going through the list. I like the idea of Jump Up being made just a bit more useful BUT I would then suggest that Jump Up is taken away from the Witch Elves. Its just way too powerful for them and if done this way then effectively they're only made stronger. Maybe increase the cost of a Witch Elf by 20K to offset the change as well?

BigD

i disagree completely. Witch elves were made significantly weaker with the new rules for frenzy. A new rule improving JumpUp would only restore them to their former greatness.

It's funny, in another thread around here people are trying to come up with a way to make the dark elf roster better...here you want to make witch elves more expensive or take away a trait...nice

[sean newboy]

I disagree with BigD, the witch elves would not be any more a target than they are already, and would still be in danger due to frenzy. Yes they would be more dangerous but not very much.

[DoubleSkulls]

If you mean make Jump Up work at the beginning of a team turn I don't really have a problem with it, as it helps the catcher types who ought to be taking it more than the blocker types who currently benefit.

[Deathwing]

has anyone asked for a clear up on how hypnotic gaze works as well

I need more help here ... I don't understand the confusion.

HGaze can be used at any point during the player's action ... seems pretty clear to me.

So you can Declare move action, HGaze, then move or
Delcare move action, Move, HGaze, move move
Declare Blitz, move, blitz hit, didn't knock him down, HGaze him, and keep moving.

The rules seem pretty clear to me that this is how it works .... where is the confusion???

Galak

viewtopic.php?t=2661&highlight=hypnotic+gaze

I know this is causing confusion simply because it comes up periodically on both here and the GW forum.
Most of us know how it works now, but the wording nevertheless could be clearer. So we're not talking about a rule change that needs discussion here, so maybe it's not so much a BBRC issue as something that we need to draw AndyH's attention to.
Would a separate category be helpful here? i.e. things that require rewording to avoid confusion as opposed to changes that need to be discussed.
e.g. HG and the 'hand-off is a type of very short pass' thing.
It could be called 'The Badly Worded Rules Which Can Lead Rookies Astray Section' or something.

[Deathwing]

If you mean make Jump Up work at the beginning of a team turn I don't really have a problem with it, as it helps the catcher types who ought to be taking it more than the blocker types who currently benefit.

Ouch! Think Guarding Norse Blitzers. And it'd be simply awesome on Witch Elves with NoS. I don't like combos that strong that require just one double.
I guess you have to find a balance between making JU more attractive a trait to take, and the impact it has on the players who start with it.
Jump Up/Catch Gutter Runners that stand up at the start of a turn? Ouch again. Although JU is a little weak for a trait right now, it's too big a swing IMO. NoS and Stand Firm might well be stronger, but who starts with them?

[DoubleSkulls]

Although JU is a little weak for a trait right now, it's too big a swing IMO. NoS and Stand Firm might well be stronger, but who starts with them?

I think the problem with Jump Up is that at the moment the players who benefit most from the rule are those who ought to benefit least.

JU is supposed to be a great choice for catcher types but isn't. Its much better on Blitzers and blockers (so they can Block when standing up).

Maybe JU could allow the player to take a hand off instead? i.e. back to something like the old Hand off rule. So JU stands up, dodges away from opponents, takes the hand off and runs in.

That's just bouncing ideas around to make it a worthwhile choice when I can take Dauntless or Guard instead.

[Deathwing]

Yeah, point taken. Been through all the arguments (in fact, weren't you here? ) and I can see the thinking....
But....
The thinking behind making JU an agility trait was not so much to make it a great choice to catcher types, but to deny it to blocker types. You'd have to make it very good indeed to make it preferable to NoS for catcher types anyway.

Yeah, it's a bit of an anomaly that *the* Agility trait is a worse option than *a* General trait for catchers, but not really any more so than Strong Arm being worse than Accurate for example.

Big Picture: Do Catchers with access to Agility skills plus NoS on doubles need an improved trait? Will that improve or better balance the game?
Personally I think it's fine as is, and I can live with the 'weak agility trait' quirk bearing in mind that it's current status is to deny it to the blocker types who (as you point out) would benefit most from having it.

[sean newboy]

Actually witchelves would be hurt if ju, was an auto activation at the beginning of their turn, due to frenzy.

[wesleytj]

Actually witchelves would be hurt if ju, was an auto activation at the beginning of their turn, due to frenzy.

No they wouldn't...I think you must not understand what they're proposing. What they are saying is a witch elf (or anyone else) with jumpup would be able to stand up first WITHOUT activating. AKA witch elf stands up, blocker moves, lineman moves, thrower passes, THEN witch elf can take her turn as well.

Now you see?

[GalakStarscraper]

No they wouldn't...I think you must not understand what they're proposing. What they are saying is a witch elf (or anyone else) with jumpup would be able to stand up first WITHOUT activating. AKA witch elf stands up, blocker moves, lineman moves, thrower passes, THEN witch elf can take her turn as well.
Now you see?

And I'll openly say that I STILL believe this is a good change to Jump Up. Makes the Dark Elves a little more bashy, and since Norse are getting creamed in the MBBL, I don't have any problem with them getting some help also.

I really don't think it would overpower Jump Up at all. I haven't seen a SINGLE coach take Jump Up since it became a trait. The purpose of making it a trait was to get rid of Piling On/Jump Up Mummies .... but its been dropped into the "why the h*ll would I waste a doubles roll on that" and I think that needs to change.

Hmmmm ... add to list of things to do to automate this option for the PBeM.

Galak

[wesleytj]

I agree galak...this would actually make jumpup WORTH a doubles roll. As it stands now, it is simply a trait that nobody EVER takes.

Any chance of getting this official by the end of July? There's this tournament I want to go to, see...

[GalakStarscraper]

I agree galak...this would actually make jumpup WORTH a doubles roll. As it stands now, it is simply a trait that nobody EVER takes.

Any chance of getting this official by the end of July? There's this tournament I want to go to, see...

Nope ... I can probably get it in for testing for the MBBL Season 3 ... but that doesn't help you for that tournament you speak of.

Galak