All about Dark Elves

[stashman]

so here's a question - if you won the chaos cup and got three mutations, who would you give what?

From LRB5

D3 random players may immediately take any Mutation skill, Hypnotic Gaze, Stab, or Regeneration in addition to any skills they already possess or take from Star Player points earned during the Chaos Cup final.

I guess I answered oryxwild

[mattgslater]

Mutations?

Lino on the LOS: Foul Appearance
Lino ILB: Prehensile Tail or Foul Appearance
Lino Safety: Horns
Runner: Big Hand
Assassin: Prehensile Tail, Very Long Legs or Extra Arms (depending on other skills)
Witch: Horns, Claw, Two Heads or Very Long Legs (depending on other skills and opposition)
Rookie Blitzer: Horns (becomes OLB)
Blitzer OLB: Horns or Claw (depending on other skills and opposition; probably Horns)
Blitzer CB: Prehensile Tail, Two Heads or Very Long Legs (depending on other skills).

I don't think I have to justify Horns, or say that VLL is intended to combo with Leap and/or PB. Foul Appearance i'd only recommend on a late-bloomer, who would still be a line-sacrifice even with a skill. But in that case it's great. It's also good if the guy has Guard. If you had to spend a skill on it it would be a colossal waste, but for free it's pretty cool.

If you have a random free mutation on a Blitzer with Dodge or a Witch who would have gotten Leap but doesn't yet have it and isn't close to improving, then give him/her Two Heads. It's essentially a free jump to Leap, so the player gets one more skill. If the player is close to advancing and getting Leap, then get VLL. Of course, if you have AG5 you don't need VLL or Big Hand. In that case I would also get Two Heads if you don't have Leap (dodge into 2TZ at 2+, pick up at 3+, dodge away), or Regeneration if you do (protect your super-expensive guy). I tend to get Pass Block as a #4 on a Leaper, and if you're like me VLL is a no-brainer on that guy.

Prehensile Tail for free is like Diving Tackle for free. If you have a developed Blitzer cornerback who hasn't taken DT yet, it's an insane proposition. On a SS/Dodge/Tackle corner, you'll have a 31 SPP guy directly on the star track. At 51, you can get DT and nobody will even try, or you can get Leap for a ballhawk assist-machine from Hell.

[SillySod]

For offensive and defensive use: Hypnotic Gaze

Not a Mutation.

For guys that usually do the LOS work : Regeneration

Not a Mutation.

I thought that too. However, recently I read the section on tournaments and it states that its a mutation or hypnogaze, regen, etc.

[mattgslater]

Man, all this talk of Mutations is making me think about Pro Elves and salivating. Jeez, think of all the crazy stuff you could do with a VLL Pro Elf Catcher!

[SillySod]

Meh, I'm mostly thinking... "why bother winning the chaos cup with this stupid team when I could've taken vampires from the outset?"

I like Darkelves alot but... yeh

[s031720]

I think there is nothing that can compete with hypno gaze in usefuleness. Just try out eldril as a starplayer and you will find that your play will take on another dimension entirely.

I think that 3 hypnogazes in a team would be atleast one too many though, its an opportunity waste.

So as Jural, Dave and others have said, horns on a jug WE would be my third choice. I might be tempted to get VLL though, to keep my leaping Jug WE on her legs.


As for inducements:

Forgot about wizards, I will add something little about them shortly.
Jural: Good point about numbers.
Sod: Good point about diffrent cardsets.

Ill add these ideas shortly if you dont mind.

[PubBowler]

If only it wasn't random players who get these bonuses...

[oryxwild]

didn't realize you could take hypnogaze! Well, I'd probably take at least one. definitely would like horns on the witch, claw on a blitzer I'd have to think about. Hypnogaze would be sweet.

[mattgslater]

HypnoGaze is pretty cool... I would put that on my Kicker if he's the one who gets it, as it's good for a cagebreaking safety. I might also take that over Foul Appearance if I had a highly developed ILB. I see its use on an OLB too, but there's no way I'd take it over horns.

[Cramy]

I had a couple of players with Hypnotic Gaze on my DE team. Amazing. Putting holes in defences, busting cages, it helped all over the place.

My team had just won the Chaos Cup, and was dominating the league. Once I got those two Hypnotic Gaze players, I played a few games, and ended-up retiring the team as these skills were just too powerful on an already dominating DE team.

[oryxwild]

so you're saying, only win the chaos cup with your team if you want to retire them soon after? XD

[AK_Dave]

I think that in a perpetual league, the benefits for winning the Chaos Cup are a bit over-the-top. But hey, it depends on the league and the teams and thats why there is a commissioner to pick whether or not to use this cup in the first place.

Three random players get something cool done to them is pretty sharp, even if that is +90K to your team rating. The fact that it has to then be modelled is all the more motivation to take Hypnotic Gaze. As far as modelling goes, thats a weenie one.

Chaos Cup needs more downside to it. More Chaos. Eldril's backstory suggests that getting Hypnotic Gaze as a result of being on a CC-winning team isn't all that hot. I'm thinking of three possibilities, maybe all 3 at once:
1. The bonus is random. Not just a random player, but a random bonus.
2. The affected players should, except on certain teams, gain Loner.
3. Roll 2+ for the affected player to remain on the team.

Random player, random bonus, thats just Chaos. But hey, I can live with the idea that Chaos picks players seemingly at random and then gives them whatever they desire most.

Chaos, Nurgle, Skaven, Underworld should all be immune from Loner. But on any other team, gaining a Chaosy bonus makes you a Loner. That one for sure. That would encourage people to put the mutation/GH/etc on a non-key player instead of stacking the bonus with a bunch of other star skills (Horns on a Block/Dauntless/Juggy Witch, VLL on a Leap/Dodger, etc). Only on the teams that have legitimate M-access would Tentacles seem normal.

Shun the mutants. Roll a 2+ is pretty bland. Thats not much shunning. Anything worse would make it a penalty to win the Chaos Cup, and teams would fight to lose the game. That would be funny to see.

In a big enough league, with perpetual teams, I suppose the +90K team value is enough of a deterrent. Sure, you get some cool perks but do you really want them after another 5 games and you're giving away all those inducements for people to hire chainsaws and kill your stars?

[mattgslater]

I really like Option 1. A d8 roll, then another d8 roll, to represent the eight arrows of Chaos (remember Chaosium's old Stormbringer RPG?), for 64 perms.

[mattgslater]

If you play against a cage and stall kind of team, ie most of the ST-teams, dwarves in particular, they want you to score quickly. Actually, they will be wanting it so bad, they will usually choose to kick instead of receiving. Why? Because, after you score that 2 turn touchdown, they will have 6 turns to make an equalizer, beating you up in the process. Next, they start the 2nd half with the ball and will use all 8 turns to score. You will beat your self bloody to reach the ball, and will end up with a dismembered team and a 1-2 loss. Dont go that route.

See, I think you should play into this strategy if you have Kick and Leap on your team, and especially if you get a little luck and knock the opponent below 11 guys (gaming for this is unrealistic, but it does happen). Against many bash teams, you can generate about a 50/50 shot at a 2-4 turn turnover score. I'm not saying you should sell out to score in two, but for a bashy opponent forcing you into a 2T score isn't really a good thing. Yeah, maybe they get a long time to do some hitting and go up 2-1 with a bloody game, but maybe you turn them over again and they end up in a 0-2 hole after turn 5, and you have a shot to put the game away with a thunderous slamming noise by halftime with a turn 8 TD. 0-3 at the half is pretty much the end for Orcs or Khemri.

If your opponent really means to win, getting a two-score lead will make him hurry, stop him from dallying, fouling or making unnecessary blocks. I do agree that it's best to hit your bashy opposition with the first TD on or about turn 4, but scoring in turn 2 is way better than making a silly mistake or seeing an improbable roll lead to a turnover, a beating, and an opposing TD in turn 8. The longer you hold off and play keep-away, the more likely that becomes.

[AK_Dave]

I find that the safest way, for me, to avoid that beating is to score early and score often. As early, as often, and as fast as possible.

What I especially enjoy about Dark Elves in this sort of situation is that they have enough beef to bash the truly agile teams, and enough speed/agility to play a more traditional elf game against the truly bash teams.