Best Defensive Teams?

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:33 am

Skummy wrote:Has to be Chaos Dwarves, no question. Speed, durability, big guy, cheap rerolls... the list goes on.

Slightly off-topic but I keep hearing that Chaos Dwarves are too good and hence have been toned down in the vault rules by losing Gen access on the Bull Centaurs. No one has really been able to explain why they are so good though. As i'm distinctly average with them it seems I was hoping someone could explain what's so great about them exactly.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:50 am

Munkey wrote:
Skummy wrote:Has to be Chaos Dwarves, no question. Speed, durability, big guy, cheap rerolls... the list goes on.
Slightly off-topic but I keep hearing that Chaos Dwarves are too good and hence have been toned down in the vault rules by losing Gen access on the Bull Centaurs. No one has really been able to explain why they are so good though. As i'm distinctly average with them it seems I was hoping someone could explain what's so great about them exactly.

Dirt cheap linemen, rock solid core of skilled CD blockers and 2 amazing blitzers with high movement AND strength.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:42 am

Don't forget the minotaur.

Munky, CD's play very differently when they have break tackle on the Bull Centaurs. Many top CD players take it as their first skill.

kithor2002 · Post by **kithor2002** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:04 pm

Munkey wrote:
Skummy wrote:Has to be Chaos Dwarves, no question. Speed, durability, big guy, cheap rerolls... the list goes on.
Slightly off-topic but I keep hearing that Chaos Dwarves are too good and hence have been toned down in the vault rules by losing Gen access on the Bull Centaurs. No one has really been able to explain why they are so good though. As i'm distinctly average with them it seems I was hoping someone could explain what's so great about them exactly.

I try to explain:
First a CD team is not a team everyone can play good from the beginning.
But if you know how to play them then they are extremely good.
They have 6 good blockers and their ball carriers are cheap.And they could have a good BigGuy for the LoS and with Break Tackle on a Bull Centaur its a very good blitzer(and with a little luck he's also a good ball carrier).
Another pro for CD is that their RR are cheap (and I think 50k is a little too cheap for this team).

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:42 am

Well, I'm wrong (as usual)

Just did the analysis from 2174 Albion league games and got the following results:

Top 5 defensive teams:

1) Kislev* 0.98 TDs/Game (in 19 games)
2) Chaos 1.03 TDs/Game (in 96 games)
3) Chaos Dwarf 1.15 TDs/Game (in 66 games)
4) Dwarf 1.19 TDs/Game (in 91 games)
5) Fim* 1.19 TDs/Game (in 7 games)

*Unofficial teams

Incidentally Humans came 17/33 and orcs 11/33

Anyone else got stats?

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:46 pm

Chaos 0,38 TDs/Game (in 8 games)

Not that representative against the other stats but enough for me to vote Chaos.

Nick-O · Post by **Nick-O** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:20 am

Hey Noodle - out of curiosity, what were the worst 5 Defensive Teams?

berserker · Post by **berserker** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:20 am

At TR 100 I didn't concede many td's with Khemri...
I played a 6 game + final season and conceded only 2 td's in these 7 games. In the first 5 games I held my opponent scoreless but as the teams evolve it get harder...
After them my best defense is dwarf, followed by chaos dwarves...

noodle · Post by **noodle** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:40 am

Worst 5 defensive teams?

Overall:

Minotaur* 4.00 TDs/game
Khorne Halfling* 3.03 TDs/game
Nurgle Halfling* 2.77 TDs/game
Halfling 2.60 TDs/game
Skaven & Goblin* 2.56 TDs/game

*Unofficial teams

Official only:

Halfling 2.60 TDs/game
Goblin 2.54 TDs/game
Lizardmen 1.93 TDs/game
Wood Elves 1.90 TDs/game
Dark Elves 1.87 TDs/game

Yavatol · Post by **Yavatol** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:41 pm

I still think Wood Elves are the best defensive teams, they are able to cause the most turn overs. Teams that yield only a few TDs do so mainly because they let opposition score and then drive them into the ground. In a classic 2-1 dwarf - elf match the dwarves are on the offense for at least 14 turns. The 1 or 2 turns they actually defended they yielded a TD. Doesn't seem like a very good defense, does it?

Otherwise I think Orcs are very strong on the defense. They are strong have a lot of strength skills access but are still versatile enough to take advantage of a mistake of the opponent.

JJB · Post by **JJB** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:25 pm

Wood elves are by far the best defensive team in my opinion. Skavens come close.

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:28 pm

I voted Chaos Dwarves, because of reasons already mentioned. The same plusses as Dwarves, but with the extra speed and Strenght of the Hobs and the BC (with Break Tackle)

Anyway, if you do get past a line of regular Dwarves, they're done for. Wood elves are good capitalizing on mistakes by the opponent, but not the best cage breakers.

Yavatol · Post by **Yavatol** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:49 pm

If wood elves are not the best cage breakers, then who in your opinion are?

Scipio_Publius · Post by **Scipio_Publius** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:26 pm

I think there are too competing ideas as to what is defence.

If your philosophy is "The best defence is the best offence" then WD and Skaven makes sense.

If your philosophy is "Controlling the game" then I think Dwarves clearly cover that aspect well.

Overall I think Dwarves are the best "Defensive" team.

Nick-O · Post by **Nick-O** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:03 am

I defined 'good defense' for the purposes of this thread as hard to score against. IMHO, Wood Elves (and to a lesser extend Skaven and other Elves) are too easy to score against to be considered good defensive teams. They win games 3-2 and are hard to outscore, but are not that hard to score on. I would catagorize WE and Skaven as 'hardest to beat'. (IMHO I think Skaven are the 'best' team in Blood Bowl, but that's a whole 'nother thread

).

Yavatol: I agree with you in a sense on a few things, but I think you are confusing how quickly a team can score with how easily a team can score. Just because it takes the dwarves six turns doesn't mean it was any harder - they just move slow. Look at an extreme example: if you had 11 Longbeards vs. my 1 War Dancer, I bet it would still take you 4 turns to score.

Scoring easily is not related to scoring quickly - there is a subtle difference between the two.

But I know what you meant: to me Dwarves seem way too easy to score on with agility teams to be considered 'best defensive team' - they are too slow and easy to get past, even with tackle. That's why my vote was for Lizard Men. They can field 6 players with a 6MA and 4STR - no other team has that combination of speed and strength. My second choice would also be Orcs, btw.

I also agree that WE Wardancers may be the best individual players at busting a cage and they would probably get my vote for best defensive player in the game - no one can get to the ball and pop it loose like a Wardancer!

But on teams vs. cages - all bashing teams are better at stopping cages than Wood Elves. So much so that a bashy, cage running team has to switch to a speed-style fast game when they are playing someone more bashy than themselves. Along those lines, I would say technically the best team vs. cages are Kehmri. With four Mummies they can break through a cage like a hot knife through butter, so all other teams have to play a speed-game vs Kehmri.

Talk Fantasy Football

Best Defensive Teams?

What is the best Defensive team in your opinion?