Race Specific SPP Chart

[Dark Lord (retired)]

Anyway, it's nice to see you gave this so much consideration before you just dismissed it.

How did I know you were going to say that?

Come on. We both like it as a concept. There is no way it fits in with the PBBL guiding principles and you knew that before you posted. In fact the only realistic assumption is that you deliberated posted in the vault section to start a fight over it.

This is just complete crap and I find it totally offensive.

I don't see how it doesn't fit into the Vault's purpose. And I believe I stated why I feel that way in my rebuttal.

But to say that the only reason I posted this is to start a flame war is completely out of line.

People, take note of what happens when a person who doesn't like the vault as is tries to post an idea.
The idea is dismissed without consideration and you are called a "trouble maker."


I think that's about ended it for me, TBB and the Vault rules right there.

Way to go, Ian.

[plasmoid]

Hi Dark Lord and Ian,
wow - you're really pushing eachothers buttons, aren't you.

DL, cute idea. But kind of optimistic getting it into the vault at this point.
I've seen many good ideas over the years, and much as I like them, I hardly use any of them.
You've said yourself that the vault rules have changed a lot. But now that has really settled down, and what remains is to make tweaks, not put in completely new material.
Hardly surprising.

But thumbs up for the idea
Cheers
Martin

[Valen]

This is just complete crap and I find it totally offensive.

I don't see how it doesn't fit into the Vault's purpose. And I believe I stated why I feel that way in my rebuttal.

I agree with Ian on the fact that this was never going to be in the vault which is why I moved it here as I think it is a good idea and deserves to be discussed as a new concept. As to the offensive bit, I would say that IMO Ian never tries to offend people and having met dont htink he ever would so I dont think he ever meant to offend you DL.

I think that's about ended it for me, TBB and the Vault rules right there.

I hope not as you have some very good ideas most of the time.

[Pink Horror]

As to the offensive bit, I would say that IMO Ian never tries to offend people and having met dont htink he ever would so I dont think he ever meant to offend you DL.

In fact the only realistic assumption is that you deliberated posted in the vault section to start a fight over it.

Is someone who ignorantly offends people by making stupid accusations any better than someone who offends on purpose? We really shouldn't have to deal with a BBRC guy doing this.

I think we don't need separate SPP charts, though. I'd rather change the players themselves if there is a problem (but no one would ever let me).

[chunky04]

I have to say, I like the idea. It would take quite a lot to get balanced though IMO - probably a few years worth of testing.

Would you base it solely on a teams power level at a particular stage of development for example? Would it be different for different players in a team?

As an example, how about giving Dwarf Blitzers and Runners accelerated early development to give the Dwarfs a better chance to ball play and give them options other than the vanilla bash things option (and yes DL, I realise Dwarfs don't have to play this way now - I rarely play them that way myself - but it is undoubtedly an efficient option).

[duff]

It would be a little complex with each player or team different, simplified if you had say, 4 or 5 "classes" of progression - standerd, slow, fast, "quickstart" and slowstart.

[browwnrob]

my speculation would lead me to believe that this would be such a major change, it would require a lot of tweaking in other areas to accomodate it. time which is better spent getting a accutare handicap system, i still feel that 100k shouldnt count because the match is too close to call, and the result will be a larger win % for the higher team... but im irish...

its a cool idea dont get me wrong and maybe as a cool house rule but i can see some anti-vault guys say "Look! an unnecessary change to the system!!!" which will result in more arguements and flames and stropping from both sides!

the apoth does work nicely in the few games ive played, but its true its not much fun, except when your opponent rerolls into an RIP

this is all my opinion of course, flame me at your peril!

[DoubleSkulls]

The tone on TBB is far far too hostile for many people and everyone on this board has a responsibility to try and keep things civilised. That includes me - so Dark Lord, if you weren't trying be inflamatory, my apologies. I do feel this is a more appropriate forum for the discussion though.

Valen is being nice about me and I appreciate it. He has afterall had the advantage of meeting me (which obviously neither you nor DL has) so maybe has a better idea of what I'm really like that you do.

Is someone who ignorantly offends people by making stupid accusations any better than someone who offends on purpose?

Wouldn't you prefer to have a board where people aren't slagging each other off all the time? One where we can discuss the game rationally? Posts like that one just encourage us all to descend into the flame wars that help no one.

Longbeards don't die often - and skill up slowly. If they skilled up more quickly early on and more slowly later than it would substantially alter their overall utility to the Dwarven team - because Guard is all they need and the added value of 2nd & 3rd skills is slight. On the other hand Elven linemen skill up quickly and get a lot of added value from the first few skills (Block, Dodge, Sidestep, Tackle- all good).

So any specialised SPP chart would have to take into account the relative added value of skills. Mainly that is set up starting skills and profile. Also role within the team is important. On most teams positional players tend to benefit more from skills than linemen.

Racial SPP tables wouldn't work easily either. A good example of why doing it on a racial basis doesn't work is the Lizardman team. Once skinks have 2-3 skills they are pretty much finished (Sure Feet, Sprint, Catch or Diving Tackle & Sidestep) for their role. Saurus on the other hand gain a lot from more skills than that (Block, Break Tackle, Tackle, Guard, Mighty Blow) that's without trying to factor in any specialist requirements (like a kicker or doubles).

[absent1]

the folks that aren't flamers

Galak

HUHHUHUH, he said flamers

[Valen]

the folks that aren't flamers

Galak

HUHHUHUH, he said flamers

And your point???

[mattski]

Tempted to think that absent1 is talking in a Beavis & Butthead styley...you know, fun and humour and stuff...

[Valen]

Ah got it now Sorry absent