Placing Players on the pitch

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:55 pm

MadLordAnarchy wrote:Its not just the first turn, its dictating the entire first drive.

You're right, but I would guess this is only an issue with bashy offences. In which case, your problem isn't really that one team gets the ball first, so much as the bashy team is difficult to beat when they have the ball... In other words, it's a tactics issue.

Like Ian said, good defence is key. About the only reliable offensive strategy bashers have is ball control, so a defending coach will (hopefully) find ways to pressure the ball carrier, prevent a cage or force a mistake. If they can't, it's not that the first kick-off advantage broke the game so much as the offensive coach probably executed his gameplan well and/or the defenders didn't have the skills to knock the ball loose.

Think about it from the other end: how many times do you see a first drive finish a little bit before the end of the half (turn 6 or 7 because of defensive pressure and RR exhaustion), only for the opponent to score a quick 2 turn equalizing TD? The defence might be down players, but they can probably score easily again in the second half and put the game out of reach. Plus, Nuffle help the bashers if the defence pulls of a last ditch attempt to prevent even the first-drive score.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:24 am

Darkson wrote:If you're losing 3 or 4 players on the opening drive, you're either not coaching very well, or you've hit by some bad dice hoodoo.

I don't buy it. Let me ask you this: How many times have you deferred a kickoff? It it wasn't a big advantage, then you wouldn't mind kicking off first, right? I have never seen a coach defer the ball to the second half. Our coaches ALWAYS elect to receive the ball first. There must be SOME reason they do.

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:32 am

I defer kickoffs all the time. Especially when coaching a bashy team. I'll give the opponent a chance at a quick score, then grind it for a late TD followed by another drive after halftime.

I think it comes down to how confidant you are about outscoring your opponent.

IONDragonX · Post by **IONDragonX** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:35 am

Warpstone wrote:I defer kickoffs all the time. Especially when coaching a bashy team. I'll give the opponent a chance at a quick score, then grind it for a late TD followed by another drive after halftime.

I think it comes down to how confidant you are about outscoring your opponent.

I can agree with that. If you are sure that you can outnumber them by the second half.

datalorex · Post by **datalorex** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:03 am

IONDragonX wrote:
Warpstone wrote:I defer kickoffs all the time. Especially when coaching a bashy team. I'll give the opponent a chance at a quick score, then grind it for a late TD followed by another drive after halftime.

I think it comes down to how confidant you are about outscoring your opponent.
I can agree with that. If you are sure that you can outnumber them by the second half.

Well, at least you put your money where your mouth is. I'll give you that. But do you do that because you have several players in reserve? My whole argument was based on two newish teams with only 11 players each. Having said that, I have to assume you know what you are talking about. I only have about 20 games under my belt.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:05 pm

I agree with Warpstone and ION. I've also deferred when I've had teams that get away from trouble, and have a (relatively) easy time on turning the ball over (Wardancers, skilled Gutter Runners).

Warpstone · Post by **Warpstone** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:04 pm

datalorex wrote: Well, at least you put your money where your mouth is. I'll give you that. But do you do that because you have several players in reserve? My whole argument was based on two newish teams with only 11 players each. Having said that, I have to assume you know what you are talking about. I only have about 20 games under my belt.

Admittedly, some rosters match-up better with some opponents out of the box (such as Dwarves and Norse vs stunty and low AV teams). It's not too dramatic though that it can't be overcome with some clever play and maybe some tweaks to your starting roster strategy (take less positionals and go for reserves and/or rerolls to make plays, etc.).

If your opponent chooses to receive and you have a weaker or agile team, just focus on preemptive action in his backfield and try to turn the ball over like Darkson mentioned. Remember that you don't actually have to go toe to toe with the offence so much as apply enough pressure that he's forced to make rolls that lead to turnovers or poor positioning that you can then gang up on. Don't let yourself get bogged down on the line of scrimmage. If your opponent still manages to cage up, just try to make sure he has enough pressure on him to score around turn 6 and leave you with enough time to equalize.

I often kickoff when playing as Skaven just because I'm fairly confidant I can force a quick turnover and then play the rest of the game to only "hold my serve."

I know I might lose players at the start, but if I take the lead early, my opponent now has to worry more about equalizing and out-scoring me rather than beating my rats to a pulp.