3 ST 5, 4 ST 4 Orc team

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri May 30, 2008 3:53 pm

Ummm...

1) ST is harder to negate than Guard: vs. Guard, you just hit the Guard guy. With ST, it doesn't matter if you hit the Guard guy or not.

2) That Wrestler? 99% of Wrestle players are ST3. Against the corner, he'll need an assist standing next to the sideline in order to get 1d (ok, if the assist has Guard, the blitz can come from the sideline). On a both-down with Wrestle, no harm is done, and the offense's path has been blocked by their own prone player, so the Wrestler is playing for a 1/6 chance. As the defense, I loves me some of them odds. Inside, the Wrestler's math at 1d gets a LITTLE better (not much), but getting 1d is predicated on a high ST, which implies either a lot of Guard or a player who doesn't have Wrestle. Teams that frequently have Wrestle and a lot of Guard... hmmm... Amazons, Humans... running out of ideas.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Sat May 31, 2008 11:50 am

mattgslater wrote: ST is harder to negate than Guard: vs. Guard, you just hit the Guard guy. With ST, it doesn't matter if you hit the Guard guy or not.

Well, I think you're forgetting about Dauntless.
A top pick for this league (with so many +ST orcs) I'm guessing.

But I'm far more concerned about playing a team with multiple guard than multiple high ST.
Positioning for assists is one of the most important aspects of the game.
Going against Guarders makes that harder. Much harder.

But opinions, opinions.

mattgslater wrote: 2) That Wrestler? 99% of Wrestle players are ST3. Against the corner, he'll need an assist standing next to the sideline in order to get 1d (ok, if the assist has Guard, the blitz can come from the sideline). On a both-down with Wrestle, no harm is done, and the offense's path has been blocked by their own prone player, so the Wrestler is playing for a 1/6 chance. As the defense, I loves me some of them odds. Inside, the Wrestler's math at 1d gets a LITTLE better (not much), but getting 1d is predicated on a high ST, which implies either a lot of Guard or a player who doesn't have Wrestle. Teams that frequently have Wrestle and a lot of Guard... hmmm... Amazons, Humans... running out of ideas.

I didn't think your quote referred directly to your opening set up.
And I was certainly not implying that this would open up a hole in your D.

My point was that of all the ways of dealing with this player you were ridiculing one of the better ones.
And as for wrestling:

You can't take him down with Block.
Pushing's out (without Juggernaut & a Blitz).
Dodging's not always appropriate to the position or team.

A Wrestling block is one of the better options, against a player who leaves you few good ones.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:03 pm

PubBowler wrote:A Wrestling block is one of the better options, against a player who leaves you few good ones.

I'll give you that. But Stand Firm is great anti-Wrestle at the start of the defensive drive, which is far and away the most important moment in BB: an overwhelming D-setup will score TD after TD, producing more and more opportunities to exercise that overwhelming setup. By comparison, a chance of giving up a situational tradeoff while stuck in on a long drive is just part of the cost of doing business against speedy opponents.

I'll also grant that I forgot about Dauntless. Wrestle/Dauntless is a hard combo to build, because Wrestle tends to slow your SPP progression by reducing your player's Cas count and driving him away from the ball, and bash teams, which build foulers, tend to really shorten Wrestlers' careers. In a long season, though, it will come up eventually. In a long season, this team has nothing to worry about: your early ST bumps will yield killer late development. Also note that unless they can get a net assist, Wrestle/Dauntless ain't really all that hot, and your high ST will let you make those net assists harder and harder to get as you put their guys down over and over and make more and more AV rolls.

On another of your points, btw, I don't think anyone's afraid of Wrestle in 2-block crowd push situations. You'd do it to a guy with Block, right? And Juggernaut, which is what you'd use to beat Block, also beats Wrestle. Wrestlers are just as subject to crowd-pushing as the next guy, or if less so, then the difference is infinitesimal.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:54 am

clockwork steve wrote:p.s. on another note, does anyone have good names for this team and its players, revolving around their obvious physical ability?

The Orclanta Fearsomes. Name each one after something people are sometimes afraid of, like Dennis Chair, Lon Mower, Bill Collector, McLeod Noyes, and Ferdinand "Ferdy" Lance.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:11 am

mattgslater wrote: On another of your points, btw, I don't think anyone's afraid of Wrestle in 2-block crowd push situations. You'd do it to a guy with Block, right? And Juggernaut, which is what you'd use to beat Block, also beats Wrestle. Wrestlers are just as subject to crowd-pushing as the next guy, or if less so, then the difference is infinitesimal.

I spent about 15mins trying to work out what you were replying to and I'm not 100% I've got it right but I think you're talking about this:

PubBowler wrote: My point was that of all the ways of dealing with this player you were ridiculing one of the better ones.
And as for wrestling:

You can't take him down with Block.
Pushing's out (without Juggernaut & a Blitz).
Dodging's not always appropriate to the position or team.

This list was meant to demonstrate why I think Wrestle is a top option on this Block/Stand Firm player.

Block doesn't work, he has Block.
Pushing him doesn't work, he has Stand Firm. Unless Juggernaut & Blitz.
You might not want to be dodging round this player with your player.

So I think it's a misunderstanding.