How importnant is RR for wood elves in league for starters?

[Cramy]

I'd go with 2 RR minimum. In any elf team, you need to develop your linos. That's one of the big advantages of Elves. You can get all players to 2 skills fairly easily. To do that, RRs are very useful.

You need those linos with Kick, blodge, wrestle, etc. I love the look on my opponents face when they realise that my LoS is all Blodgers.

So don't use too many positionals at first. Get those SPPs on every player. Get an Apoth first. Then positionals and other rerolls.

In the end though, it depends on the length of your league. If it is a short league (lets say 10 games), then get more positionals and just score as many touchdowns as possible without worrying too much about spreading SPPs. If it is a long league, then spread the SPPs around and get some of the positionals later. The Thrower and Catchers skill-up very quickly anyways.

I wouldn't start with the Tree. But if he really wants to, well, do it.

[mattgslater]

One WD means you have one guy to make a key blitz, and that's also the one guy you have to Leap in on the other side. on D, that means the one guy most likely to get open to pop the ball free to a waiting lino to score is also the one guy who's best to make the blitz.

Wardancers are just way way way better in pairs, and they make all of your other players better by taking the hard stuff out and just leaving the easy rolls. By soaking up threat, they reduce your cas rate, and by providing alternate threats, they keep the opponent honest and force the game to rotate around 1d6 rolls rather than 2d6 rolls, if you take my drift.

[wesleytj]

No offense, but 0RR for league wood elves is nuts. And this is from a guy who put that forward as a good tourney roster (given that I could take Leader on a Thrower)

You need rerolls. You have no sure hands on a starting team. Rolling a 1 to try to pick up the ball is going to kill you. You are going to want to try to leap with the WD - counting on a 3+ for a whole game with no rerolls? No thanks.

What you DON'T need on a starting wood elf league roster, is catchers. Your line elves make decent catchers early on. If you start with catchers, they'll hog all your TDs and your line elves will never get skills. Don't get me wrong, I know catchers are great, and I'd definitely recommend buying them, but not to start.

I'd recommend this as a good TV100 team for a standard league:

2WD 240
9Line 630
2RR 100
3FF

If you are afraid of getting bashed too much, you can switch out one of the WD for a Tree. Same cost and it will be a little more resilient, but not as dangerous.

[PubBowler]

What you DON'T need on a starting wood elf league roster, is catchers.

I wouldn't want Catchers to actually be Catchers early in a league either.

At this point, Catchers have two roles:

One turn TDs
Not so deep receiver to threaten the turnover score.

Line-elves can do a lot but they can't do that.

But if I wasn't to take one, it'd be 2FF and 10k banked for an apoth.

[wesleytj]

I see starting only one WD as very risky. If anything happens to him, you don't have any. Two WDs can sort of protect each other by drawing fire, and allow you to blitz with Block pretty much anywhere. One WD, however, will just get shut down.

The missing RR... that's something, to be sure, but you don't really NEED 2 RRs, not the way you need 2 WDs. I think it's a bad idea to take a Tree over either one, but if you're just gangbusters on the Treeman, I think re-rolls are less important than better players.

You and I tend to agree on tactical stuff matt, but on this one I don't agree with you at all. Back in the days when you actually needed to start with fan factor on your team, my starting roster was:

1 WD
10 line
2 rr
8 ff

Always always always. I've played a lot of games to start bb leagues with that roster, and I've never lost when I was tr100 and the opponent was tr100. I don't know the exact number, but it's at least 10-0, probably more like 15-0.

2WD is nice, and now that I don't have to have FF so much, I would recommend starting with 2. But it's not what I would call "very risky", and the 1 WD will not get "shut down". In my experience, no tr100 team can "shut down" a Wardancer. They're just too damn good. Back when your 2nd skill came at 11spp, I used to get 2 skill rolls with WD's after the 1st game now and then.

I'd take a reroll and save for apoth first, 2nd WD second. Now, for a tourney, that's something else entirely. I'll tell you next week how a 0RR tourney Wood elf team works.

[final fortune]

The missing RR... that's something, to be sure, but you don't really NEED 2 RRs, not the way you need 2 WDs. I think it's a bad idea to take a Tree over either one, but if you're just gangbusters on the Treeman, I think re-rolls are less important than better players.

You and I tend to agree on tactical stuff matt, but on this one I don't agree with you at all. Back in the days when you actually needed to start with fan factor on your team, my starting roster was:

1 WD
10 line
2 rr
8 ff

Always always always. I've played a lot of games to start bb leagues with that roster, and I've never lost when I was tr100 and the opponent was tr100. I don't know the exact number, but it's at least 10-0, probably more like 15-0.

2WD is nice, and now that I don't have to have FF so much, I would recommend starting with 2. But it's not what I would call "very risky", and the 1 WD will not get "shut down". In my experience, no tr100 team can "shut down" a Wardancer. They're just too damn good. Back when your 2nd skill came at 11spp, I used to get 2 skill rolls with WD's after the 1st game now and then.

I'd take a reroll and save for apoth first, 2nd WD second. Now, for a tourney, that's something else entirely. I'll tell you next week how a 0RR tourney Wood elf team works.

Well im looking foward to hear how it went

The team he has chosen looks like this:

2 WD
1 Tree
7 line elfs
1 catcher (his job is to stand midfield and catch the short throw, then run and make a handoff to the scoring line elf)

0 APO
1 RR
0 FF

Total: 1M

first buy is the Apo -> 2ed catcher -> RR -> Thrower -> RR -> RR (that is if none of the wardancers die)

[mattgslater]

I'd up-prioritize a Thrower purchase. I don't think you should start with one, but a Thrower and an increase is like a lineman and a TRR, so don't dally too long before recruiting one. That saves a precious 100k, which can easily mean the diff between a coasty 13-man roster and a raggedy 12-man roster after 7 or 8 games.

[whitetiger]

I agree that he needs a thrower sooner.

Apo - thrower - catcher - RR - RR, and replace a Wardancer when he gets killed.

[Sallacious]

I used this line up

1 Wardancer (120k)
1 Thrower (90k)
9 Line Elves (630k)
3 ReRolls (150k)
1 FF (10k)

Total Cost 1,000,000

[Subhedgehog]

I used this line up

1 Wardancer (120k)
1 Thrower (90k)
9 Line Elves (630k)
3 ReRolls (150k)
1 FF (10k)

Total Cost 1,000,000

I've got to lend my vote for a setup like this. 1 reroll on a team full of line-elves is asking for a murdering.

[wesleytj]

Well im looking foward to hear how it went

Well, it was a 6 game tourney, and I went 4-2-0. My first loss was to a dwarf team that finished 2nd overall (out of 55-ish coaches), and the 2nd was an orc team who finished high as well.

In neither case would I say the lack of rerolls made the difference. In the first loss, having 10 rerolls wouldn't have helped - I rolled a 1 every time I tried to dodge, pick up the ball, anything. Lost 2-0.

In the second, the rerolls weren't the issue. I scored quickly and went up 1-0. Then when I kicked back to him, he brought down the tree and fouled him with a gobbo on turn 3, killing him. Over the next 4 turns, every armor roll was a success and the most common result was a KO. By halftime I had 6 KO's and 3 Cas, meaning there were 2 elves left on the pitch, and he scored in Turn 8. I ended that half with a reroll, I had a kickoff event go my way and of the two players left, one was miraculously the leader! So rerolls played no part in my 1st half problems, just a bad streak of injuries.

I got slightly lucky and got 4 of the 6 KOs back, so I was back to 6 elves to start the 2nd half. It was enough that I managed to force him to score instead of stalling the whole 2nd half, my 5 elves quickly scored again to make it 2-2. But by then, BOTH my wardancers were cas'ed out. So my remaining team was 2 catchers, 2 line elves, and the thrower. I hoped to slow down the orcs enough for the draw, but couldn't manage it, so he won 3-2. I also ended that half with rerolls won from kickoff events (I got lucky and had FAME on that game and all the kickoff events were FAME related reroll things, which I won)

So again, in neither loss did the lack of rerolls cause me to lose. The roster was solid. I was in 5th place overall going into the last game, and tied for 2nd for the scoring award (despite that 0 TD game). Not sure where my final spot was on either - I'm sure I'll know soon. Xtreme has always been good about getting results up on the website and all.

I STILL don't recommend it for a league though.

[final fortune]

thanks for the info and gratz on your small tournament it was interesting reading i must say. I know you wont recommend this for a league, but as you said yourself its a solid roster. When the our big league starts, thats the roster my friend will bring (1 tree, 7 lineelf, 2 WD, 1 catcher, 1RR). The league last for like 4 mounth and starts in September if all go as planned.

Ill keep posting and readig this great forum to improve my own gameplay and understanding of this wonderfull game

I was planning on brinning a Pro Elf team my self but is really temptet to play as Wood Elves. Allways loved the Elf Agility and MA to preform the passing game. That tree in the front line will indeed over a long tournament prevent a lot of hurts elfs.

[wesleytj]

thanks for the info and gratz on your small tournament it was interesting reading i must say. I know you wont recommend this for a league, but as you said yourself its a solid roster.

It is, for a tourney where the roster resets after every game. The whole logic is that you have players with the skills that give rerolls. In the 2nd game when you have a couple of key guys missing the game, suddenly the rerolls matter a LOT, because you're getting line elves to do the work you would have had the positional players doing.

Not only that, I would never have taken 0RR if not for the fact that I can hand out 6 skills for free before the tourney started, meaning I had a thrower with Leader. I also had a catcher with Sure Hands for picking up the ball, which is essentially worth a reroll every time you go to pick up the ball.

Plus, the roster I took is horrible for team development. For example, one of my catchers, totally by chance and the way things worked out over the course of the tourney, scored 8 of my 15 TD's. Over half of them went to one guy. One line elf got one, the two wardancers each got one, and the other two catchers got 2 each.

Obviously, in a league I would have spread it around a little more, but my point is that the positonals (esp the catchers) will naturally hog all the SPP. That catcher would have ended up with 27 spp (8TD, 1INT, and 1Comp) in 6 games, had we been counting them. That makes for one great player, but surrounded by a bunch of no-skill elves. The thrower had 5 comps, there were a few Cas going around, and of course no MVPs were awarded, so that would have made some difference, but my point is that in a league it's not JUST about winning each given game- you have to plan long term, both in terms of SPP distribution AND injury issues (esp with wood elves, who are both expensive and fragile)

Anyway, like I said, it's a great tourney roster, but no way would I use it for a league. I'd go 1wd, 1tree, 9 line elves, 2 rr, and 3 ff, and then build your team over time with positionals. It's conservative, and not nearly as flashy as my tourney team, but it's also built to be successful for the long haul.

[zephard]

One would think that a person could buy rerolls if the league runs long, but really getting those positionals instead of rerolls actually cost you a lot.

My Nuffles Blessed (yes DE, not WE) have never had TRRs nor Leader, and I can tell you it is extremely fustrating the 2 turn you don't pick up a ball, since you don't have sure hands or the reroll. A 2+ roll common, two turns, it happens often.

I am in an "infinite" league, but the problem you run into real murders who have lots of mighty blow, to crush your freshly bought players. Those rerolls really help a lot.

[Drool_bucket]

I am more and more leaning towards the

2 WD
1 Thrower
8 Lineelfs
2 RR

for league play. The thrower has a few things going for it. First, he brings the built-in reroll for your scoring play, no need to blow the reroll on the pass when you'll probably need it for a dodge or a catch. Second, the thrower allows you to get the ball to the most "open" lineelf for the TD. (and by open, I mean the one with 3-5 SPPs ) Finally, after 2 games he should be looking at getting Leader for his first skill up, by just throwing passes, not CAS or TD or anything else.

On defense, he's just another lineelf (less likely to take chances with him)

Catchers on early League WE teams are just SPP hogs, which stunts the rest of the team. I feel the thrower is the exact opposite, a facilitator for lineelf development.