Help me think this through (5 drive BB)

[voyagers_uk]

I like the 4 turn max limit per drive. I just think that using a punt (not a field goal) would be better for actually moving the ball and not giving one set of teams an advantage.

punts that crossed the goal line would lead to crowd throws and could end up down the other end of the field....... whoch would be fun too...

I think this has legs as an idea. I am not advocating bringing back the kicking rules, just that field position which is an aspect of NFL and Rugby that never made it in to the rules properly would slot nicely into this direction.

keep it up lets brainstorm some more plans

[Jural]

Martin,

My advice is to stick to a core few teams and play the rules, then let us know how they turn out.

If it were me, all teams would initially be limited to Orcs, Humans, Dark Elves, High Elves, and Chaos Dwarves. Norse or Amazon would be OK as well.

Not too fast, not too slow teams. Truly those are the "average teams" in Blood Bowl.

After you get the rules down, I'd try the extreme teams and see how they fare (Dwarves, Lizardmen, Wood Elves, Skaven, Khmeri)

[spubbbba]

I really don't like this, it would make elf teams far too dominant.

it's very easy for agility teams to score in 2 turns and this would give the defence only 1 blitz and maybe a foul. So virtually no chance to do any harm at all. Like others have suggested you'd need to bring in some changes to the set up rules to counteract this as slower teams can not stop elves scoring without luck.

Then when the bashers receive they only have 4 turns to not only try and score but also reduce the other teams numbers. The re-rolls regenerating every turn and more chances for Ko'd players to come back would create a much lesy bloody game.

How about not ending the drive on a score? that way the other side has a chance to do some damage or even equalise if the other side scores on turn 2 or 3. At the very least they can get some hits in and agile teams might score twice in a drive.

[Beholden]

I actually like this idea.

Being forced to punt the ball after 4 turns is a great idea as well, but I'm not sure it would work. Having only 4 turns definitely cripples teams like Dwarves without some sort of punt mechanic though. That makes me want each drive to be 5 turns, but then the game might be longer than even regular blood bowl!

A simple mechanic might be that if you fail to score on a drive, the next drive you start with the ball in the exact same square which is now the new line of scrimmage.

Scoring would still be difficult since the defending team gets to set up second and the ball is on the line of scrimmage. I suspect this would typically require the "center" (the man with the ball on the line of scrimmage) to hand the ball off to a player directly behind him (ie: hike the ball). That player would then pass the ball or run down field.

The game is sounding more and more like the NFL already!

- Beholden.

[Warpstone]

It's an interesting idea. While I like the idea of punting, it seems a bit contrived to force it after X number of turns, so how about...

Crowd Pressure!

Blood Bowl fans spend a good amount of gold to see both pain and scoring. Dull offences quickly learn to avoid the pain of a crowd that gets bored!

If a team has had the ball in it's possession for more than 4 consecutive turns, the crowd throws rock before this team's next turn at a randomly chosen player. Resolve similarly to the kickoff table result, except that there is only 1 rock thrown and only an offensive player is hit.

I've made it apply to any team, but you could be more specific and direct the rule only at the receiving team, or even if the receiving team has failed to score in 4 turns if you want to really make your point!

The bonus with this is that you don't have to radically reconfigure the rosters... the fans do it for you!

[SillySod]

If you want to make the 4 turn thing work then I suspect you'll need to change around with the roster and progression mechanics rather than on-pitch mechanics. I'd guess:
- re-rolls are going to have to be pretty pricey if they are replenished each turn
- elves are going to have to be made more expensive, perhaps most of the excess cost could go onto their re-rolls
- teams will suffer less grind.... but changed costs are going to throw things topsy turvy too

Crowd Pressure!

Blood Bowl fans spend a good amount of gold to see both pain and scoring. Dull offences quickly learn to avoid the pain of a crowd that gets bored!

If a team has had the ball in it's possession for more than 4 consecutive turns, the crowd throws rock before this team's next turn at a randomly chosen player. Resolve similarly to the kickoff table result, except that there is only 1 rock thrown and only an offensive player is hit.

I suspect that will result in a suprising number of elf stalls just happening to drop the ball into a safe square for a turn "oops, the counter is reset".

[plasmoid]

Hi guys,
thanks for the feedback. And sure Voyagers, let's keep brainstorming. Just don't be offended if I dismiss most of it, because I have a pretty good idea about what I want to do.

I think the field position idea has merit: I.e. play 4 turn drives, but if nobody scores, the new LOS is where the ball ended up. I won't be using it for now though. But maybe later....

And yep Jural, it probably is a good idea to restrict team selction. I'll probably cut back to 8. Still, if I keep all the fast teams out of it, I won't really know whether they're overpowered or not. So I'll keep a speed roster in the mix.

As for on pitch punting, I kind of like it. I'd love the ball to move fast here, so I might allow a punt action, which can be made instead of a pass, and ignores range modifiers but can never be accurate... Possibly with extra scatters or bounces(?)

Interesting.....
Cheers

[voyagers_uk]

Hi guys,
thanks for the feedback. And sure Voyagers, let's keep brainstorming. Just don't be offended if I dismiss most of it, because I have a pretty good idea about what I want to do.

Bloody Dane!



I get that a lot... But still the idea is one that I like. I might have a play with some rules and try to influence a friend into trying it out with me

[MadLordAnarchy]

If you're going to change so radically, why are you sticking with the official race lists?

I'd prefer this sort of 4 downs theme to the rugby style game that we have at the moment.

[voyagers_uk]

but why change the race lists?

[plasmoid]

Hi Voyagers,
having thought more about the Field Position idea, which I quite like, here is what I dislike about it:
I find that on the last turn of each half (except on dead turns, due to a TD just being scored) the tension rises, as it is now all or nothing time. Big plays get tried, and it feels as though the game hangs in the balance - which it usually does

I'm hoping that this excitement will also be felt near the end of the shorter drives. Just setting up again from a new LOS will make the end of drive feel much less ultimate.

Did that make sense?
Cheers
Martin

[voyagers_uk]

In which case take the leaf even further from the NFL.

on Turn 4 they can either kick if it is obvious they will not score / field position is a priority

or

They can try their luck and if they fail the opposition starts with field position where they finish.

[MadLordAnarchy]

but why change the race lists?

Why not? Why make a radical new option and hamstring it by worrying about a balance that won't fit in the same way?

I haven't used race lists for about 9 years and I can't say I'd ever dream of going back to them.

[voyagers_uk]

too much of what happens is a knee jerk reaction to perception

I would be content to take the supposedly balanced teams that we have now and play for a while with them in whatever layout of the rules.

only after conclusive testing would I even hesistate to raise my hand....

I would not play favourites and would expect all parties to have played a season with at least every type of team as well.

[plasmoid]

Hi MLA,
IMO the teams are reasonably balanced on the pitch in BB. In drives that aren't straight OTS, even seen enough offense and defense scores with pretty much any team.

I think they'll provide an excellent starting point.
Certainly better than redesigning a whole range of teams from scratch.
Besides, I have miniatures for the existing teams

Cheers
Martin