How to develop Pro Elf Catchers?

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:02 pm

sirsebstar wrote:wrestle dodge on the ballcarrier?

Do you mean to take down their ball carrier?

If so, I'd add Tackle & Strip Ball

If you mean when you're carrying the ball, Wrestle is a poor choice as when you go prone you lose the ball.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:42 pm

I like to get two Leapers on the board at all times, so I like to have three Leap players. One will be Blitzer #1 (Leap second, after Frenzy), and the other two are generally Catchers #1 (first skill) and #3 (second). Against ST3 speed teams without Grab, like Elves and early Skaven, it's possible to actually use the corners in front of the outside LBs rather than behind them, effectively making the OLBs into dimebacks. With a Kick lino at one safety spot (go Wrestle next, naturally), and a pair of Side Step linos at inside LB (really, your only LBs) hugging the wide zones, you can now protect three Catchers. This is very liberating.

Four skilled linos = 4-6 matches to build up to this D.

Code: Select all

  LE = Line-Elf
LK = Line-Elf with Kick
LS = Line-Elf with Side Step
-- -- -- --|-- -- LE LS LE -- --|-- -- -- --
-- BL -- --|LS -- -- -- -- -- LS|-- -- BL --
-- -- CA --|-- -- CA -- LK -- --|-- CA -- --

Leap is very good on the safety, and if your skill-placement conditions your opponent to build a strong side, Leap is also very good in the strong-side wide-zone.
Again, a caveat about Grab. And watch out for Big Guys if you don't have Dodge on the Blitzers, as they will get three dice. Leap is a partial answer to Grab, though, so long as Grab/Frenzy remains a no-no. Against bash, drop the wide zone players back a square, and if you still have your Apoth, you maybe want to use the SS Linos in the wide zones, so you have only AV8/Block in Quick-Snap exposure (don't do this without an Apoth, as that MA7 is too valuable for dirty work).

If you always do it right, and you never suffer from elf-rolls, you should go 8-0 on the bad offenses and 6-0 on the good ones. That's not going to happen, but there's no reason not to shoot for it.

corlm · Post by **corlm** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:33 pm

The league has started!

I've played a few practice games (some with a few skill ups) with the team before the start and so far I love how the team plays. However I've run into a few problems against QP based teams when I don't have kick and the ball goes very deep on the kickoff. It's hard to get enough players up and around to cover enough of the field so that the other player doesn't just blitz one of my catchers and runs/passes the ball through the cleared lane into a cage, once the ball is actually in the cage the game starts getting "interesting" and my linemen tend to start visiting the dugout.

I've put some thought into doing a few asymmetrical setups with the los shifted of the center of the pitch, however putting down the los and blitzing the ilb on the short side always seems too easy. My reasoning behind shifting the los closer to a side is that I hope the opponent either decides to tries to knock down my los and go through the hole or ignores the los and takes the weaker side. Either way it should make it possible for a good kick on the other side of his attack or if he goes deep with the ball after picking it up, the area needed to close off should be smaller and thus I can put my team more compact. If someone got any ideas on how to do that properly I'd love some help.

My first game went pretty well, I scored 5 times, made 8 completions and went up 140 TV which I'm pretty happy with. The MVP went to a lineman that didn't get any other spp that game so no lineman with kick for next game sadly. All three catchers got a skill and so did the thrower, 2 catchers got dodge and one leap. The thrower I'm a bit unsure what to get, the way I play he pretty rarely pick up the ball as when I receive I try to make a completion by throwing a quick pass to the thrower so not to keen on sure hands, at least not yet. I got 2 extra re-rolls from kickoffs which got used so I'm not sure if I need to learn to do less 2+ or if I should get leader now that I got the chance. One option I was thinking of was getting kick and leader on my thrower and keep him in a protected spot, however I'm worried that it will put to much of a target on his back. I’m not really interested in too many passing skills as most of the time when I receive the td happens by making a quick pass to a catcher that then runs up and does a handoff to a player that can make a td, or a handoff and then a quick pass with the catcher depending on how it looks. So what do you suggest, leader, kick, kick then leader, side step or dodge?

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:24 pm

I would suggest Leader.

My experience of Pro-Elves is that they truly love re-rolls, perhaps more than any other team.

The re-rolls allow you to dominate the first half of each half, starting a match by going 2-0 up when all goes well, before you start losing player numbers.

One Thrower becomes the Leader, the other the Thrower.

Hope this helps.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:23 pm

Once you get a few Side Step linos, those asymmetric defenses start making a whole lot more sense, particularly against bash.

Marlow · Post by **Marlow** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:54 am

corlm wrote:my thrower ...
So what do you suggest, leader, kick, kick then leader, side step or dodge?

Personally I would give him Accurate, but from the skills you list I would pick Dodge.

I like being able to throw six squares on 2+ with a reroll it gives me more options.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:46 pm

If you want to put a lineman with Pass at Safety for an additional 10k, do this with your #2 Thrower. By then you've already got a Kicker for sure. So in that case get Dodge or Leader as a first skill. For your #1 Thrower, build a player who will eventually be an offensive specialist, with any two of Accurate, KOR and SH filling the top 2 selections, and Block or Dodge as #3. If it's your #2 Thrower and your Kicker dies or gets retired, then I could see taking Kick, as P access, Pass and Kick are all good stuff on a safety, and a Thrower is only 10k off a lineman.

corlm · Post by **corlm** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:53 pm

I’ve played another few games and a total different story.

First game saw a throw a rock on the first kickoff that hit my catcher with dodge and gave it –AG and after apoth it was a SI, so down one player and no apoth before the game even started. Next I had the pleasure of rolling 6 ones (2 re-rolls and no-so sure hands) in a row and all of a sudden the game didn’t look that promising at all. Eventually it ended with a lucky draw.

Second game started just as fun. Met a new team, won the coin toss and elected to kick. First three blocks didn’t see any of the los going down then the fun started. One block and 2 blitzes later and all of a sudden I had a side stepping lineman with –MV, a sure hands thrower with niggling and another lineman with –AV! So, turn two and I was all of a sudden playing with 8 players including 2 journeymen.. things where looking good! He started talking about staling and I started scoring, with some luck I was up 4-1 halfway through the second half, then we got a riot (we got another turn), I got a few snake eyes and with a bunch of GFIs and 3+ rolls he scored and it ended up a 4-3 in my favor.

It took him 13 turns to roll anything other then stunned (he rolled about 6 of them the entire game) and casualty followed by a 5 on the injury roll, the problem was that he switched to roll a 6 instead on my leap catcher and after apoth he reverted to 5s (-MV), then by turn 15 he decided he should avg out the rolls a bit so he KOed 2 players and did another 2 casulty although they where only badly hurt and seriously injured but I had used my apoth and it was on my blitzer and my last catcher so I was sweating when he rolled the injury.

Anyway at the end of it I was pretty happy, the first game was hard and with the dice against me I was very happy with the score. The second game was insane injury wise but next week is a resting week so I’ll get back all my MNGs and if felt good to be up 4-1 at one point considering how much I scrambled for it with such a decimated team. I’ve also rolled high winnings in all my first three games so I have some options on how to replace my dead/injured players.

At the moment I have 11 players, 3 ff, 2 re-rolls an apoth and 100k in the treasury.

Blitzer
Blitzer – skill
Catcher – leap, -mv
Catcher – dodge
Catcher – dodge, skill
Thrower
Thrower – sure hands, niggling
Lineman – kick
Lineman – -av (no spp)
Lineman – side step, -mv
Lineman – sidestep

My first thought when I figured out I had 100k left was to buy a fourth catcher and develop the one with –mv as a pure blitzer, however after some thinking buying more linemen so I can replace the –av and get a small bench is more appealing. If I buy a new lineman I have 40k left witch should see me able to replace the –av lino in my next game (with the exception of another game like my third) instead of in two games if I buy a catcher.

Should I buy a new lineman and then replace the injured one or buy two new linemen and let the injured one play on and die whenever he happens to die (and possibly steal mvps).

I’m a bit undecided on what to give the blitzer, on offence I tend to use them to intercede the path to my catcher and soak the blitz so dodge and jump up looks good, on defense they act as cornerbacks in the beginning so dodge/jump up/tackle/shadowing all are appealing however once the opponent has actually started trying to run the ball I barely use them to do the actual blitzes so I can’t decide if I should forgo the usual blitz skills as frenzy/tackle/strip ball/leap/dauntless/etc and just give them skills that protect them instead. I haven’t really got the hang of the team yet, a lot of my tds are due to the opponents rushing their plays and start doing desperate stuff when I start to gang up on the ball carrier. It would suck if I ended up with blitzers that can survive but not being able to sack the ball properly once I figure out how I want to go about it consistently.

One thing that I’ve felt that I’ve needed is a dauntless, but if I put a lineup with a block/dodge/side step/jump up on one side and a block/side step/dauntless/frenzy the soaker is pretty useless at cornerback since the opponent will almost always try the other side witch means I need to develop an av 7 cornerback. So I’m a bit at a loss at how to proceed.

To Bevan, Thanks for the msg about your asymmetrical setup, it wasn’t exactly what I was looking for (I was trying to make it so that it required a successful blitz on a blodger to get through) however I tried it once before I got run down to 8 players and it worked pretty well, he stretched out his line and made it easy to get through and dominate his backfield. So thanks a lot for the help and time it took you to write it down.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:40 pm

My suggestions are:

- Buy the Catcher. The Catchers are superb but short-winded - you can't have too many of them.

- Take Wrestle on the Catcher with Dodge/1 Skill. As well as protecting him, it makes him a cage-breaker.

- Get Block on some Linos as soon as you can - one reason you are getting splatted is a lack of Block.

Hope this helps.

FischerKing · Post by **FischerKing** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:29 am

Smeborg wrote:I would suggest Leader.

My experience of Pro-Elves is that they truly love re-rolls, perhaps more than any other team.

The re-rolls allow you to dominate the first half of each half, starting a match by going 2-0 up when all goes well, before you start losing player numbers.

One Thrower becomes the Leader, the other the Thrower.

Hope this helps.

On that one, how do you develope the Leader thrower? He needs to be something usefull to have on the field as well or the rr will not be present. Im thinking blodge sure hands on his next skills to make him kindoff multipurpose. Blodge and he has the basic defense and can help out were he is needed like a normal lineelf, and with sure hands he can attempt to pickup and pass the ball if it pops loose on defense and he happens to be nearby, with the added sideeffect that he can be used to run the ball when the situation is suitable for that style.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:07 am

Buy a Catcher.

For the Leader guy, get Dodge as a #2, or even as a #1, getting Leader as a #2. Dodge has a nice synergy with Pass. Then SH or Block, depending on how gutsy you feel. For the SH guy, try to develop an offensive specialist, whose job is just to make sure he gets off the field in two turns every time you receive a kick (funny how in BB "TOP" is a negative, while in AmFB it's considered a mark of success). That'll negate the effect of the Niggling Injury too, as he just won't get hit anymore.

The -MA guy is an inside LB or a defensive end, so that's not a big deal. Let the -AV guy hang out on your roster until you get enough players that you're ok firing one.

As for the next skills, I say it depends a lot on your next opponent. But Dodge on a Catcher meshes well with Block and Wrestle; I'd get Block, getting Wrestle on the -MA/Leap Catcher. Dodge on the Blitzers is priority 1: they're tough and side-steppy, but they're expensive and get hit a lot. After that, it depends on what you're seeing. Fend/Leap rocks against bash, while Tackle/DT is optimal vs. speed.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:26 am

FischerKing - in my experience, the Thrower with Leader, like the Lino with Kick, does not really develop.

But I suggest developing him, should you be so lucky, along moderately defensive lines, perhaps: Leader, Sure Hands, Dodge. I see him mainly as a defender, with the ability to scoop up the loose ball, but with a secondary ability to be the reserve Thrower on offense.

Hope this helps.

corlm · Post by **corlm** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:29 pm

I’ve had another game and it went quite well. I played against a dark elf team that is somewhat developed so I got a few hundred k’ of inducements. The game ended up 4-2 in my favor and I got a few MNGs against me, all in all I’m very happy with the result since I was the underdog by a wide margin.

My original plan for my blitzer was to get one with dodge/tackle and one with dodge/dauntless and then add in a frenzy somewhere. My opponents for the next couple of matches are low TV chaos, undead and humans (with ogre). The league is another 7 matches and then a playoff if I end somewhere in to top. My “problem” is that my second blitzer rolled a double on the first skill up and I can’t make up my mind on what to pick. Guard/dodge/skill, mighty blow/dodge/frenzy, grab/dodge/dauntless and ignoring the double all seem like a good idea. Guard on a block/dodge/side step feels immensely powerful, grab enables fancy chain-pushes on the ball and makes a OTS easier, mighty blow goes nicely with tackle or frenzy but even though there’s more seasons to come I don’t really feel that just one makes a difference on a team as a whole.

So what should I pick, mighty blow, guard, grab, ignore (dodge) or something entirely different?

Perhaps I should rename the thread since it’s more a ‘please help me with a team’-thread by now.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:58 pm

I suggest Guard is hard to beat.

I had a team with two Blitzers, both of whom had Blodge, Sidestep, Guard. They were well hated by opponents.

Hope this helps.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:34 pm

Is your remaining schedule bashy or speedy? Grab is awesome against other Side-Stepping teams, and is generally great on this player against ST3 or less (awesome when stuck in and contending for the ball), while Guard is better against bash. Guard on a PE Blitzer isn't as cool as it looks, as he's such an obvious cornerback and can't use Guard to fill his primary function (taking the hit or making the blitz). But Guard is a great skill in any event, and is even better than Grab should the game degenerate into a fight over TZs-on-ball (both skills really rock in that regard).

With 7 games to go, you might want to consider Mighty Blow too. Not sure about that advice... but it's hard to go TOO far wrong with MB at 6SPP.