Mult. Block, Pass Block, Kick, Grab

UncleBob · Post by **UncleBob** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:06 am

I totaly agree, stop beating me.

I also checked older rule books and it becomes very clear that the whole matter is out of bounds. It's just the "exception" that Pro can be used during kick-off for catch rolles that opened the gates a bit.

Good arguments.

thechosengobbo · Post by **thechosengobbo** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:11 am

UncleBob wrote:I totaly agree, stop beating me.

But we need something to do on here in the day

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:29 pm

Uhm?
Pro can't be used to catch the ball on a kick-off. Pro can (just like team rerolls) be used on a turn, and the kick-off does not happen on a turn.

Also - another spin on this whole "does it matter who is the kicker" debate:
You can't reroll the scatter rolls when throwing an inaccurate pass. Nor can you reroll the bounce.
So, even if there was a designated kicker, and he had pro, rerolling "scattering/bouncing" is not allowed.

Cheers
Martin

Xeterog · Post by **Xeterog** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:28 pm

plasmoid wrote:Uhm?
Pro can't be used to catch the ball on a kick-off. Pro can (just like team rerolls) be used on a turn, and the kick-off does not happen on a turn.Cheers
Martin

uh...yes you can..it is a specific exception.

Team Re-Rolls and the Kick-off Table
You may not re-roll the result on the Kick-Off table with a team
re-roll. In addition, subsequent rolls from Kick-Off events such as
the D3 roll for Brilliant Coaching or D6 for Riot may not be re-
rolled. A team re-roll may not be used for any catch roll when the
ball lands: however, players may use the Catch or Pro skill to try
to re-roll the catch roll.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:53 pm

Oh I hate that!
I mean - it's fine.
It's just... I can't memorize a 60 page rulebook. But I can learn the basics and extrapolate from there.
So when a skill says "use on a turn"...

Ah well, my mistake

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:51 am

Including an exception relating to a specific skill (in this case Pro) on a page other than the Skill Descriptions is a sort of unintentional editorial misdemeanour, I believe.

I have suggested elsewhere that this exception wording be moved to the Skill Description pages under Pro. That's the normal place for skill-related rule exceptions.

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:02 am

Is this really an exeption? Is it not only team RRs that can only be used in your o wn turn. Skills is a different story - they can be used arcording to the wording in the skilldescription, wich in many cases include the oposing teams turn and even when it isnt even a teams turn.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:04 pm

The pro skill explicitly states that it can be used on a turn. (used to say team turn).
Nothing else.
The kick-off is by definition not a turn.

I'm with Smeborg.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:32 pm

There is a strange little secondary problem as well. Nowhere in the rulebook is the concept of a "turn" adequately defined (I believe).

If a turn were properly defined, it would be easier to know when Pro can be used. For example, I fail to pick-up the ball, therefore my turn ends, but can I then use Pro to catch the ensuing bouncing ball (I believe the BBRC would say yes, as would most coaches, but they would not need to make a ruling if the concept of "turn" were clearly defined - when it begins, when it ends).

My suggestion has been to have a glossary of terms in the rulebook for just such things. But I suspect the BBRC and JJ don't have an appetite for that sort of thing yet.

Hope this helps.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:57 pm

Haven't checked.
But - AFAIK - a turn starts when the turn marker is moved (or should have been moved), and ends when a turnover occurs (voluntarily or not) and there are no more rolls left to make.

I thought it was in the rules at some point...
Cheers
Martin

khudzlin · Post by **khudzlin** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:34 am

what would be clarified is whether that player can use his pro skill in the coming opponent's turn for another action

if the scatter/catch happens on his team turn, then he can use pro on the catch only if he hasn't used it on a previous action in that turn, but he can use it during the next opponent's turn

if it happens on the opponent's team turn, then he can use pro on the catch even if he has used it on his turn, but not on the next opponent's team turn, since he has used it for that turn already

daloonieshaman · Post by **daloonieshaman** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:37 am

the Kicker Debate only matters as to the setup
if he is wide-out or on the line he cannot use his skill

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:32 am

Hi Khudzlin,
a pro player can use pro every turn. He has turns and his opponent has turn, so pro could potentially be used 32 times in a game.
Cheers
Martin

khudzlin · Post by **khudzlin** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:42 pm

he could use it a lot more than that, if it's tournament game with overtime, not to mention a few kick-offs add turns

my point was that depending on when a turn ends, the decision whether to use pro on a scatter might change

daloonieshaman · Post by **daloonieshaman** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:32 pm

Are you talking the Distance + arrow die or are you talking the after chart bounce

The after chart bounce is a dead clear no

If you declare the pro player kicking before the kick is made you may use pro to re-roll his distance + Direction die (both not either/or as they are one cast of the dice. (like 1d6 dodge or 3 blocking dice)