Can you Fumble a pass when you roll a 6?

[besters]

I think Smeborg did give the offical ruling?

[purdindas]

Yeah the word always kinda gave it away I thought

[styphon]

Guys, passing, catching, picking up, interception... they're all agility rolls. And on ANY agility roll a 1 is a fail and a 6 is a pass. There are 0 exceptions to this rule.

[Xeterog]

I think ya'll are right and I was wrong...oh well...even after all this time I can learn something

[Jural]

The following quotes, from the Basic Rules Portion of the rules, indicates that a roll of a 6 will always succeed.

A roll of 1 before modification always fails and a roll of 6 before modification always succeeds for any Agility roll made during a game.

IMPORTANT: The Agility table is used to work out the success
or failure of a number of different Actions in Blood Bowl including
dodging, picking up the ball, and throwing or catching the ball...

If the final modified score equals or beats the required roll, the pass is accurate and lands in the target square. If the D6 roll is less than the required total, then the pass is not accurate ...

Interesting note- There are NO fumbles in the basic rules... so all mention of succeeding and failing in the basic rules never even consider fumbling. In the EXTRA RULES, Fumbles are covered, however.

Fumbles
...if the D6 roll for a pass is 1 or less before or after modification,
then the thrower has fumbled and dropped the ball.

That's where things get confusing, I think. Under the basic rules, there are only two outcomes, either you succeed and are accurate, or you fail and are inaccurate.

You can view the rules for fumbling either as a modification to the passing rules, which is what we all do (i.e. there are accurate, inaccurate pases, and fumbles.) But they aren't written that way. They are written so that once you roll your d6 (agility test) you must also check to see if you have fumbled.

Let's say you have a human thrower throwing a long bomb in a tackle zone. Most of us would say the following situation is the case:

6- Accurate
5. 4- Inaccurate
3, 2, 1- Fumble

However, I think the rules are written such that you first check accuracy and inaccuracy.

6- Accurate
5, 4, 3, 2, 1- Inaccurate.

Then you check the fumble rule and find that a 3, 2, and a 1 are fumbles.

In the case of there being 3 tackle zones on the player throwing a long bomb, the situation is similar for accuracy:

6- Accurate (rule of 1 and 6)
5,4,3,2,1- Inaccurate

Then you check for fumble, and find that you have a -5, so every die roll ends up as a 1 or less.

So the argument can be made that in the case of passing, you can fumble an accurate pass in this scenario. Yes the pass is accurate, but you have also fumbled, which overrides the accurate pass.

Like I said, some BBRC clarification would be nice. I have always rules it as a 6 is accurate no matter what, but I have my doubts... GorTex may be right.

[styphon]

Like I said, some BBRC clarification would be nice. I have always rules it as a 6 is accurate no matter what, but I have my doubts... GorTex may be right.

But it says an Agility roll of 6 (and a pass action is an agility roll) before modification is an automatic pass. You don't even take modifications into consideration at this stage, it's a straight pass. There are no exceptions to that rule.

Look up the player’s Agility on the Agility table opposite to find
the score required to successfully dodge out of the square. For
example, if the player had an Agility of 3 he would need to roll a
4 or more to dodge out of the square. Roll a D6, and add or
subtract any of the modifiers that apply to the D6 roll. A roll of 1
before modification always fails and a roll of 6 before
modification always succeeds.

Perhaps it would be easier to put it as a sequence of events:

1. Roll D6
2. Check if it's a 1 or a 6, if it is then it's an automatic fail / pass
3. If 2-5 apply any modifiers
4. Check to see if modified roll passed or failed.
5. PASSES ONLY - If it failed, was the modified roll 1 or below. If yes then it fumbles

[DoubleSkulls]

IMO a natural 6 always succeeds - even on a fumble.

[Grumbledook]

it isn't a fumble though, you rolled a 6

[Jural]

IMO a natural 6 always succeeds - even on a fumble.

That's good enough for me! We've always played it that way as well...

And unlike some of the other esoteric issues, this one has come up in maybe 3-5 games I've played in my life... Of course we just assumed a 6 would work.

[Hache]

And we just invented the fumbled success...

[GalakStarscraper]

Official ruling would be nice... this one comes up on occasion!

For an AG roll ... a roll of 1 always fails ... a roll of 6 always succeeds. If the dice rolls are either of these than the modifiers are irrelevant.

A pass made in 8 TZs succeeds on a 6.

Galak

[Digger Goreman]

Atomic bruiser noogies to those who thought otherwise!

[Hache]

A pass made in 8 TZs succeeds on a 6.

And what about a pass made in 9 TZs ?

[Grumbledook]

how are you going to be in 9 TZ?

[khudzlin]

but you can make a long bomb pass in 8 TZ, in range of 11 FA players when it is very sunny... for a total modifier of -22