Hobgoblin development

[mattgslater]

Got an 11 last game, but it was on a Dwarf, so I ignored it.

[Blammaham]

Got an 11 last game, but it was on a Dwarf, so I ignored it.

Yup.S.

[mattgslater]

Got an 11 last game, but it was on a Dwarf, so I ignored it.

Yup.S.

So now, this team has rolled 10+ twice, and has no stats or doubles to show for it. That's one of the downsides to heavy teams in general. Elves seldom bypass stats, except maybe 10s on linos (even then, not for Wood Elves).

Related question: Dwarfs and skills. My current plan is Guard x3, MB x2, Guard as first skills, and SF filling out the universal top 3 normals assuming no doubles/ST, with Claw on doubles (replacing an MB except on #6) to be converted to CPOMB or Guard/CMB. I currently have two Guards. I feel like I've done a good job working to skill Dwarfs, including one with 2x TD, but the Cas mostly haven't come (the BC has racked up a couple), and the MVPs have gone primarily to the Hobs. In four games, my six Chaos Dwarfs have 8, 7, 2, 2, 0, and 0 SPP, while the Hobs are doing great even though they only have one more score than the Dwarfs, and have just two comps between them.

I think what I may do in light of that thinking is get 3x Wrestle Hobs to go with my Block guy and my DP. That way, I have a dedicated LOS to use against chaotics, which I don't think will be a major factor in this format (one Pact team that doesn't see much use, one Nurgle team that may or may not get picked up). There is, or will be, a fair portion of CMB out there, but it's not on guys who will take PO. I'm starting to feel like this might be my team for the coming season, so I'm not so concerned about format length for the time being: they may get 20 games, or even more if they win their way into the Champions League (which they probably will).

[Blammaham]

Got an 11 last game, but it was on a Dwarf, so I ignored it.

Yup.S.

So now, this team has rolled 10+ twice, and has no stats or doubles to show for it. That's one of the downsides to heavy teams in general. Elves seldom bypass stats, except maybe 10s on linos (even then, not for Wood Elves).

Related question: Dwarfs and skills. My current plan is Guard x3, MB x2, Guard as first skills, and SF filling out the universal top 3 normals assuming no doubles/ST, with Claw on doubles (replacing an MB except on #6) to be converted to CPOMB or Guard/CMB. I currently have two Guards. I feel like I've done a good job working to skill Dwarfs, including one with 2x TD, but the Cas mostly haven't come (the BC has racked up a couple), and the MVPs have gone primarily to the Hobs. In four games, my six Chaos Dwarfs have 8, 7, 2, 2, 0, and 0 SPP, while the Hobs are doing great even though they only have one more score than the Dwarfs, and have just two comps between them.

I think what I may do in light of that thinking is get 3x Wrestle Hobs to go with my Block guy and my DP. That way, I have a dedicated LOS to use against chaotics, which I don't think will be a major factor in this format (one Pact team that doesn't see much use, one Nurgle team that may or may not get picked up). There is, or will be, a fair portion of CMB out there, but it's not on guys who will take PO. I'm starting to feel like this might be my team for the coming season, so I'm not so concerned about format length for the time being: they may get 20 games, or even more if they win their way into the Champions League (which they probably will).

Here's my theory on building the dwarves up (since you asked so nice!) First off they have to live a long time which is why I keep them off the line as the higher the team values you end up playing there is always a claw MB player and that makes your precious Dwarfs as fragile as a hobgoblin (well almost!). While I place great value on SF I don't take it before a third skill, Guard is obviously more important and I think so is MB, and I think a lot of people find that they will disagree with that but consistent casualties are the only way CD get SPP's game in and game out. MB on 5 or 6 players (at least 4) also helps with the numbers game which is a huge key in winning early games (at least for me). I do like to alternate between the two though 3 Dwarfs get MB and three get Guard as the develop. Boring and not to all tastes but I have found that the MB CDs skill up at twice the rate of the Gaurders and this is after all a progression game.

The first 2 doubles on my CDs got claw(one already had MD the other got claw as his first skill and got MB next). I really like grab on these guys Matt and here's why I feel it is one of the most underrated skills for killers in the game. I never hesitate to hit SS players with grab and if they are my claw MB guys the I can make sure they are in the scurm with all the gaurders around them hitting everything that moves, aside from the obvious offensive positioning. The next two doubles will get dodge stand firm combos as I love the uber defensive positional player too. I currently have one of these guys and they are dominant on their side of the piich closing off a wide zone them selves, but i don't need to tell you (or anyone else reading this far) how good a player that is! I have been hesitant to take PO with my claw CDs because I think their low MA hurts that skill, and they are the pillars of my team and I'm just not going to let them get fouled so this would minimize the use I'd get out of that skill. I find they still KO a ton of players and that helps the numbers quite a bit with less risk to foulers and also keeps them in position and on their feet, where they can use their other skills. I also got quite fortunate to get a ST4 CD that already had Claw MB and he is the star of my team.

I'm not ignoring stand firm here it is a third skill for the CDs that don't get a quick doubles, and remember the theory of keeping them skilling up makes a third skill really quite a high priority. I love SF love it!

I found that my Mino wasn't carrying his weight at 200 TV so I cut him and found I was having a tough time with teams that out gaurded and out strenghted me (read Orks and to a lesser extent Chaos) and that is why I went with Dauntless on two of my CDs as well, I find that it gels well with the multiple gaurders and stand firm too to create a player that can, in the right situation be really tough on big guys. This lowered my team rating a bunch and kept my punch quite strong. If my Mino had block I would have kept him at that level but not otherwise.

I see you want to go with wrestle, but I don't like that mamby pamby elf skill on my players because I suspect like you I like to play a positional game and I find that players staying on their feet is key to what I want to do on defensive positioning and I never have a shortage of guys to foul with my CD's hitting everyone so getting players on the ground isn't a problem generally and good coaches only take a both down if you have wrestle on a last resort type of chioce and I find it to be a low reward skill, I seem to be a club of one on this issue but I'm pretty sure I'm right . S.

Here's my team page for easy reference: http://www.thunderbowl.ca/tbsn/index.ph ... obj_id=113

[Smeborg]

Blammaham - after trying different development paths, I now like to give the CDs M-Blow as their first skill, in order to keep skilling them up. Guard as second skill, unless it is a double (Claw). I am inclined to ignore a double if rolled as first skill (M-Blow is better for skilling up, Claw will come). I know this differs from "received wisdom", which is to give Guard first, but it seems to work better for me. A CD with (say) 6 SPPs and Guard will take forever to get to his second skill.

I think on balance that the Mino is a useful member of the team (I used to think the opposite). He adds early grunt, along with starting Frenzy, which is always nice for keeping the opponent's defense honest. I see you have "solved" the problem by giving Frenzy to a BC! I have gone the other way this season, with a lucky +1ST on a BC, giving a rather nice defense with 2 x ST5 players.

All the best.

[B SIDE]

Got an 11 last game, but it was on a Dwarf, so I ignored it.

I got a +1 AG on a CD last week and I took it. Mostly because I have this two headed, three armed CD model conversion I've been dying to put on the pitch. I figure that's pretty close to WYSIWYG.

But my CD team also has a +1 AG Hobbo, now with Sure Hands. Another has DP and Kick. (The other two have yet to skill.)

My thoughts for your team development: If you're facing three Skaven teams in your league, get those ball handling skills before DP or Kick.

[Blammaham]

Smeborg, I don;t disagree with you that MB skills the Dwarf up fast, in fact in my long winded post I'm sure that I mentioned that I have found that too, exponentially so, but I still found Guard helped protect my team overall to help keep guys upright and alive and that's why I alternate MB and Gaurd s the first two skills and I find that a few well placed / lucky MVPs really help get the gaurders moving and once they have MB it's off to the races. I completely disagree on your forgoing of the early double for MB though Claw early is fine and MB at 16 is certainly attainable in most league settings.S.