Dark Elves development in bashy league

[klauser]

Another update and some roster management issues for my Darkies. With two matches to go, the Hungarian Hydras are tied for 1st place in their division. My final two matches are against 'Zons (will be conceding 360k in inducements) and Necroes with 5 Blodgers (Golem, Were, Wight, 2 Ghouls) and about equal TV.

Here's the current roster:

Blitzer - Dodge, Side Step, DT, Tackle
Blitzer - Dodge, SS, DT, Tackle
Blitzer - Dodge, Guard, SS
Blitzer - rookie

WE - Block, Side Step, [6+4]
WE - Wrestle, Tackle, Side Step

Runner - Wrestle, Pass, Dodge

Line - Wrestle, Kick
Line - Block, MB, Niggle (MNG) - Note: MB over Guard was a mistake, aggravated by the death of my 2nd Guard Blitzer
4 rookie Lineelves

4 RR
Apo
150k stashed
TV ~1950 (including the MNG guy)

Questions:

1. What skill for the WE?
Normally I'd go with the +MV, no questions asked. However, with my last two opponents having tons of Dodgers (and Blodgers), I feel that Tackle might be a better metagame choice. I already have 3 Tackle, which is enough generally speaking, but the Tackle overkill could be the deciding factor in those matches against the Zons and Necroes.
Should I go for +MV, Tackle #4 or some other option (please explain)?

2. What to do with the Niggle Lineelf?
That Lineelf had MB as his only skill (huge mistake, should have been Guard) and suffered a Niggling Injury in my last match against Lizzies. I was going to cut him alright, but he got the MVP and levelled up. Now he has Block, MB and could act as a substitute blitzer and deliver ouchy hits against the LOS on my offensive drive.
Should I still sack him in view of the Niggle and the questionable value/TV bloat he brings? If I am to keep him around, what skill should he get next?

[MKL]

Hi Klauser, nice team.

With 3 Tackle, 3 Wrestle and 2 D-Tackle I think you are in good position to deal with these Ag3 blodgers. More critically imo, how many Guard, S-Step, S-Firm do they have?

If they are sensibly stronger than you in Guard and positioning skills, I will take the +MA for the Witch (to widen your threat range). In the same vein, since you are lacking it, you can take Leap (to threaten their second line).

Otherwise, Tackle (or D-Tackle too) is a solid choice, especially with the playoffs looming...

About the Lineman... I agree with you, but since you got it (and you are not in matchmaking, I reckon), I will keep him a little longer and use him 'till skill up again (Dodge) or die in the line of duty.
...but keep in mind I hate to fire skilled players

[Smeborg]

klauser - I would be tempted to fire the crippled Lino.

I am unsure about the next skill for the WE. If it were not for your forthcoming matches, I would take the +MA. If the over-riding issue is winning the next 2 matches, then I guess Tackle is better (but forgoing +IMA seems a waste!).

Let us know how you get on.

[Lunchab1es]

For the Runner I’d take dodge, actually I’d fire and replace him as wrestle is a terrible choice for the ball carrier compared to block.

I disagree here. This let's him utilize dump-off with the added bonus of an increased chance to drag down the opposing blitzer at the same time, thus hopefully giving the "receiver" a more open path to the goal line. If your normal method is to plan on using dumpoff, there's really not much downside, and is actually better in that respect than block.

Plus, he can hang around on defense as a decent deep safety

[klauser]

re 6,4 roll on WE:
I'm now tending towards taking the +MV. Tackle would be a stronger choice for my remaining matches, but the additional reach is universally useful. Also, I have found that Tackle on a Frenzy player can be annoying when trying to crowd-surf a Dodger.

re Niggling Block, MB Lineelf:
Not sure here. He is MNG for my next match, so I have some time to mull over it. My high TV is starting to become an issue though. I like to run a slow, controlled offensive drive, but an opposing Wizard makes that a risky venture. On the other, I've had trouble keeping any skilled Lineelves alive and would be loath to sack a Block, MB piece.

re Wrestle on Runner:
My only Runner is skilled Wrestle, Dodge, Pass. I realize that's a controversial choice, but I have been quite happy with the results so far. I always try to accommodate for a Dump Off and with Pass the odds of success are pretty decent. Having another Wrodger to use on defense has been very useful as well. Next skill will be Accurate, though Side Step would probably be a stronger choice from a defensive perspective. However, I figure it's okay to have one piece geared more towards offense and Accurate has great synergy with Dump Off.

[Smurf]

I know I go against the grain but for WE I would go with AV. From my experience I have a WD with AV8 and we could count how many times he was saved by it.

Not sure if you have experience selective blitzing. AV8 on many of your pieces and AV7 on the rest. Given the cost of a WE, I'd err on the side of caution and give her AV8.

[dines]

re 6,4 roll on WE:
I'm now tending towards taking the +MV. Tackle would be a stronger choice for my remaining matches, but the additional reach is universally useful. Also, I have found that Tackle on a Frenzy player can be annoying when trying to crowd-surf a Dodger.

re Niggling Block, MB Lineelf:
Not sure here. He is MNG for my next match, so I have some time to mull over it. My high TV is starting to become an issue though. I like to run a slow, controlled offensive drive, but an opposing Wizard makes that a risky venture. On the other, I've had trouble keeping any skilled Lineelves alive and would be loath to sack a Block, MB piece.

re Wrestle on Runner:
My only Runner is skilled Wrestle, Dodge, Pass. I realize that's a controversial choice, but I have been quite happy with the results so far. I always try to accommodate for a Dump Off and with Pass the odds of success are pretty decent. Having another Wrodger to use on defense has been very useful as well. Next skill will be Accurate, though Side Step would probably be a stronger choice from a defensive perspective. However, I figure it's okay to have one piece geared more towards offense and Accurate has great synergy with Dump Off.

You don't have to use tackle if a push is better, but then again, the opponent don't have to use dodge either...

[juck101]

Stripball, leap or dauntless on the witch I think.

ma8 is sexxy but you got a decent runner so you dont need a runner, or reciever really. Its ok on defense but not my cup-of-tea.

You dont have enough gaurd for my liking, but thats the way it is now. So I would go dauntless to fight more, or leap to introduce a new trick.

Your team is actually very solid with blodge/ss so holding a tight unit must be the way to play. I think for that reason leap might give new options and force others into a different play style. If the entire teams guard are all holidng round a cage ball and not fighting me, im happy really. Leap might give you that.

Av is ok but other ideas offer more I think.
So I think leap for the witch.

Mb guy - whatever. Let him die or replace is no big odds. having block makes him tougher, and having nig makes him weaker. I think I would fire him unless you think you might miss him. Personally i doubt it would effect the way I play

[Anglakhel]

For the Runner I’d take dodge, actually I’d fire and replace him as wrestle is a terrible choice for the ball carrier compared to block.

I disagree here. This let's him utilize dump-off with the added bonus of an increased chance to drag down the opposing blitzer at the same time, thus hopefully giving the "receiver" a more open path to the goal line. If your normal method is to plan on using dumpoff, there's really not much downside, and is actually better in that respect than block.

Plus, he can hang around on defense as a decent deep safety

Agreed.

Wrodge on Runners (Witches and Lineelves) is fantastic.

I think Blodge is overused and Blodge on everyone a relic of Dark Elf Team Development prior to the introduction of Wrestle.

[spubbbba]

The great strength of the elf teams is that with AG4 all of them are great at picking up the ball, dodging, passing and catching so you can rely on any of them to move the ball.

Elves tend to get beaten up and also need to capitalise on their chances to steal the ball so Wrestle limits a player’s usefulness as a ball handler.

A lot of great elf coaches don’t bother with specialised ball carriers, in particular on wood and dark elf teams in preference of a cheaper lineman (and better armour in the case of dark elves). I still see wrestle as a skill for ball carrier hunters and LOS fodder, it works well on witches as they come with jump up and dodge so their mobility is less hampered and they can be safer being prone.

Far too many Dark Elf coaches get seduced by the Dump Off skill and waste effort and TV devising a strategy around it. Dump Off should be a desperation move, any tactic that revolves around your AV7 ball carrier getting hit is asking for trouble.

[Smeborg]

Far too many Dark Elf coaches get seduced by the Dump Off skill and waste effort and TV devising a strategy around it. Dump Off should be a desperation move, any tactic that revolves around your AV7 ball carrier getting hit is asking for trouble.

spubbbba - I agree. If anyone wants to play Dump-Off, other teams are better at it (HEs or PEs, for example).

[klauser]

The next season has started for my Darkies and, after winning their division, the Hungarian Hydras are now in Division 1 (of 3)! They also beat their first round opponent (Norse) 2-0 straight, thanks to some nifty Diving Tackles. Next up is a very nasty case of killer Chaos, featuring several ClawPOMB-Tacklers (!) and a ST5 Tentacled CW. Ugh. No Mino though.

The goods news are the 450k of inducements coming our way. I'm looking for suggestions on how to invest this wad-o-dough.

Here's the current roster:

Blitzer - Dodge, Side Step, DT, Tackle
Blitzer - Dodge, SS, DT, Tackle
Blitzer - Dodge, Guard, SS
Blitzer - Dodge

WE - Block, Side Step, +MV
WE - Wrestle, Tackle, Side Step

Runner - Wrestle, Pass, Dodge

Line - Wrestle, Kick
Line - Block, MB, (Ni)
Line - Dodge
Line - rookie
Line - rookie (MNG)
Line - Guard (MNG)

4 RR
Apo

That's 11 players for the next match, def not enough versus killer Chaos. So some of the 450k should go towards reinforcements. How about a Wizard and a bunch of merc lines? Maybe a merc Assassin? The DaE Starplayers seem a bit too vulnerable vs mass MB-Tackle. Wizard and a bunch of Wandering Apos? Hell, I could even hire good ol' Morg! Help please...

[Smurf]

Not sure if the orc team is reroll intensive. I have enjoyed the Halfling Hot Pot. The funny thing is watching the team struggle without many rerolls.

Another Apoth and a babe to help your out whilst being flattened.

[klauser]

Not sure if the orc team is reroll intensive. I have enjoyed the Halfling Hot Pot. The funny thing is watching the team struggle without many rerolls.

Another Apoth and a babe to help your out whilst being flattened.

They are rocking 4 RR and a Leader goat. Too much to bank on the Halfer Chef, I'm afraid. Once they pick up the ball on offense, all they have to reroll are early double-skulls. And their defensive strategy is probably to slaughter my team, rendering strip n' steal-shennanigans obsolete.

[Hitonagashi]

The next season has started for my Darkies and, after winning their division, the Hungarian Hydras are now in Division 1 (of 3)! They also beat their first round opponent (Norse) 2-0 straight, thanks to some nifty Diving Tackles. Next up is a very nasty case of killer Chaos, featuring several ClawPOMB-Tacklers (!) and a ST5 Tentacled CW. Ugh. No Mino though.

The goods news are the 450k of inducements coming our way. I'm looking for suggestions on how to invest this wad-o-dough.

Here's the current roster:

Blitzer - Dodge, Side Step, DT, Tackle
Blitzer - Dodge, SS, DT, Tackle
Blitzer - Dodge, Guard, SS
Blitzer - Dodge

WE - Block, Side Step, +MV
WE - Wrestle, Tackle, Side Step

Runner - Wrestle, Pass, Dodge

Line - Wrestle, Kick
Line - Block, MB, (Ni)
Line - Dodge
Line - rookie
Line - rookie (MNG)
Line - Guard (MNG)

4 RR
Apo

That's 11 players for the next match, def not enough versus killer Chaos. So some of the 450k should go towards reinforcements. How about a Wizard and a bunch of merc lines? Maybe a merc Assassin? The DaE Starplayers seem a bit too vulnerable vs mass MB-Tackle. Wizard and a bunch of Wandering Apos? Hell, I could even hire good ol' Morg! Help please...

Not morg. Not against killer chaos. He's amazing for elves against dwarves/norse/humans, but if he comes up against high strength and or lots of claw, he goes missing very quickly.

It depends if you want to win the game, or survive the game. Survive, 2 apos, 2 babes, a wizard and hope.

I'd personally go Roxy and a wizard I think. The normal problem with a wizard is how to pick the ruddy thing up once he's popped it, but with an ag 5 leap dodge player, she's *amazing* at ball retrieval from even the tightest of spots. In addition, juggernaut makes her a great surfer.

Another thing to consider is how many players he's got. Against bashy teams, the last thing they expect a Dark Elf team to do is go on the offensive, but it can sometimes be very effective. The first half of that game, because he had a lot of niggles, I used Morg to hammer people down, my WE to surf dwarves and my dp to foul niggled players...reduced them to 4 players on the pitch by the end of the first half. Sadly, all KOs woke up and the second half turned into a bit of a bloody slog, but I'd done enough by then.

Against chaos, you might be able to get away with elven precision hitting. Taking Hubris, a bribe and maybe induce a merc with DP. Blitz the beastmen down with Hubris and gangfoul them, and use your AG 4 to dance around the pitch to avoid taking more than the blitz every turn. I personally find chaos coaches sometimes get a little scared of the killing, and a bribe and a couple of DP's encourage them not to PO as much. In addition, they will target the DP's to keep their players alive, so they'll be hitting Hubris and the merc, and not concentrating on your actual important players for next game. It would be fun, and I bet he won't see it coming. Only do this if he's a) got a team built around a small amount of legends, and lots of fodder, or b) only has 12ish players.

With my most recent major game, I think I've got a rather large inducement headache to think about too (my DE's vs his CD's). Inducements are fun!