When is +AV a good choice (general discussion)?

[stashman]

On AV8/9 it's a good investment

Having high/dark elfs lions with wrestle/dodge/AV9 is hard to take out.

My crazy DE blitzer have AV10, BUT if I knew that I should roll 10 twice (in a row) I would have taken MA, BUT he is a tough son-of-a-b***h and I put him close to big guys and mummies. Next skill (has 24 spp) will be Dodge and then Side Step/Fend.

[Bathoz]

I've been considering it for my man marking Pro elf blitzers.

The normal skill route is: dodge, tackle, diving tackle, shadowing, whatever else I can think of that's annoying.

And +AV seems like a natural fit there.

[Smurf]

AV7 = squishy
AV9 = hard as orcs and dwarves and tin cans sorry chaos warriors.

Does the player really benefit from the extra stat increase?

Scrimmage fodder should get a +1 AV, it helps them do their job.
Some players are so expensive that a +1 AV would make them really nice:

Witch Elves
Wardancers
Wights
Werewolves
etc.

I had a war dancer saved by his +1 armour. Some nasty chaos thing hit and got a 7 and with mighty blow it was a busted armour roll for injury... no I said, for he has AV8

Just the little extra can go a long way.

[Afroman]

I don't think I would ever give it to a Fling. Movement has so much more usefulness!

[Lunchab1es]

Scrimmage fodder should get a +1 AV, it helps them do their job.
Some players are so expensive that a +1 AV would make them really nice:

Witch Elves
Wardancers
Wights
Werewolves
.

+1. I would also add it to well developed pieces, particularly those who previously rolled useful stat boosts.

[nick_nameless]

as a 4th/5th skill on a low armor piece you want to protect.

Why waste the TV on +AV for a player with no skills. Block, wrestle, fend, tackle are all generally more useful

[SunDevil]

I think Werewolves are the poster-children for +AV. Going 7 to 8 on a Wardancer? Eh, borderline. But 8 to 9 for a Wolf? Solid gold, since the Wolves are such targets and I like to hit with mine.

Goes great with Block, Claw, Frenzy and, if you are very lucky, Mighty Blow and/or Pile On.

Might consider smeborg's suggestion of a 10-AV Tomb Guardian. Playing them in my second straight TT season and have replaced more Guardians than Skellies.

[juck101]

My best wood elf side, and fastest to 2k took we lineman with +1av. Not game winning but it kept my side healthy and winning as usual overall

I think av 7 to 8 is the best value so I might try it on Norse if I ever get the chance. Munkey also pimped both witches in a de side with +av and it seamed to be a good thing. His win ratio was normal so they certainly were not bad picks. It's got it's place. Oh skaven also and maybe skinks would be fine

Overall when you roll a ten the ma boost is probably a better choice on a positional. The issue then becomes linemen are more likely to get the +av option and then you are taking a pricey longterm pick on a short time deposable player. Doh. Still balance this with how many times you picked thick skull. Lol. Overall I think it's fine and a very rare pick but it does have it's place

[betterZthenDeaD]

This one is for smeborg and SunDevil in particular...

... How about +AV on a Blitzing Pestigor? Would that give him that much more protection? If you got the +AV on his first roll would you then consider steering him in that direction. Would the extra AV be worth it on your ball carrying Pestigor also?

[mattgslater]

4th or later skill on almost anybody. Otherwise, not so much. Norse Lineman, 2nd skill on an Amazon Linewoman or Blitzer if I already had some +MA guys. Maybe #3 on an expensive guy, maybe not.

[Wanchor]

This one is for smeborg and SunDevil in particular...

... How about +AV on a Blitzing Pestigor? Would that give him that much more protection? If you got the +AV on his first roll would you then consider steering him in that direction. Would the extra AV be worth it on your ball carrying Pestigor also?

If it were his first roll, I'd give him a movement increase and he probably wouldn't wind up becoming a blitzer. For the Wrestler-types, probably MA too. I might have given it to my slayer Pestigor, and might still, as I'm concerned about keeping him around long-term. Still, the way I use him, MA might work better for protection than AV.

[Smurf]

My best wood elf side, and fastest to 2k took we lineman with +1av. Not game winning but it kept my side healthy and winning as usual overall

I think av 7 to 8 is the best value so I might try it on Norse if I ever get the chance. Munkey also pimped both witches in a de side with +av and it seamed to be a good thing. His win ratio was normal so they certainly were not bad picks. It's got it's place. Oh skaven also and maybe skinks would be fine

Overall when you roll a ten the ma boost is probably a better choice on a positional. The issue then becomes linemen are more likely to get the +av option and then you are taking a pricey longterm pick on a short time deposable player. Doh. Still balance this with how many times you picked thick skull. Lol. Overall I think it's fine and a very rare pick but it does have it's place

Skaven scrimmage would do nice with AV8

Skinks are a toss up, move or durability. I would side with the AV8, it just a slight edge.

[Ullis]

I really doubt I'll ever end up taking +AV on any player. Perhaps as a 4th or 5th skill on someone with only General skill access but that doesn't happen too often.

Many teams never end up with enough skilled linos to be able to pick skills for los duty. For example, new skaven linemen come in handy boxes of 3 so you always have journeymen or rookies for the los. If the skill retention on the team is is high enough, then that usually means that you have S access players to try and dominate the los.

And for tomb guardians I think MB, Guard, Stand Firm and Break Tackle would be better picks than +AV and if the skill roll was 5+5, then I'd take Block, Frenzy, Dodge, Side step, Tackle, Sure feet or Diving Tackle. And TG's skill up super slowly.

[RogueThirteen]

I disagree with the sentiment that it's only ever considerable for pieces with low armor. I don't think going from 9 --> 10 AV has diminishing returns, especially if that AV9 piece is really valuable to the team. Taking a piece from 9 --> 10 means their armor will break 50% less often now (17% of the time to 8% of the time). That's like an unmodified 4+ save, so to speak.

Now, that being said, I'm still not sure when an AV9 piece would want that extra stat up, but probably not until they've gotten at least 3 or 4 skills already. And, that being said, most AV9 pieces level up terribly slowly, so the odds of any player actually getting to the point when they are willing to take the stat up over a skill is pretty uncommon.

I agree that pieces like Wardancers, Witch Elves, and Werewolves could take it. The pieces are already fast enough and are such huge blitz/foul targets that the protection will pay off quickly. Additionally, they can get SPPs easily enough to be able to get future additional skill-ups.

Additionally, already well-developed skinks could benefit from it. Skinks don't have many worthwhile skills to choose from, so a 6+4 could become valuable as +AV on a piece that's already got some valuable doubles skills. Not to mention that a main tactic against Lizardmen is to mercilessly hunt/foul their skinks, so the piece will certainly be a target. Finally, with the penalty for stunty in place, preventing armor breaks can be hugely beneficial.

[mattgslater]

Assuming the roll is (6,4):

Amazons: Almost never.
Chaos: #4 on Minos, #2 on Warriors.
Chaos Dwarfs: #5 on Hobgoblins, #3 on Dwarfs, #1 on Minotaur.
Chaos Pact: #1 on Minotaur.
Dark Elves: #4 skill on a lino, #2 on a Witch.
Dwarfs: #4 skill on a Blocker, #3 on a Slayer.
Elves: #3 on Blitzers, Throwers, Linemen.
Goblins: #3 on Troll.
Halflings: Never.
High Elves: #4 on Blitzers, Linemen.
Humans: #3 on Ogre, Linemen. Maybe even #2.
Khemri: #2 on Tomb Guardians and Skeletons.
Lizardmen: #3 on Kroxigor and Saurusurusesi.
Necromantic: #3 on Flesh Golems, #2 on Zombies. Never again on a Ghoul!
Norse: Possible #3 on Berserkers, #2 on Yhetee, Linemen.
Nurgle: #3 on Beast, Warriors, Rotters.
Ogre: Never.
Orc: #3 on Troll, Blocker, Lineman.
Skaven: #3 on Linerats, #1 on Rat Ogre.
Slann: #3 on Kroxigor.
Undead: #2 on Mummies, Zombies.
Underworld Pact: Never.
Vampires: #4 on Vampires.
Wood Elves: Never.