Nightdragon's Tactical questions

[mattgslater]

Tackle is great, negates the most powerful skill in the game. Vs Block/Dodge, Tackle more-or-less doubles your pow odds (not quite except on 1d), be it on 1d, 2d, or 3d. Vs. Dodge alone, Tackle makes the hits pretty reliable. I like it after Wrestle on one or two Skaven Linemen, after Mighty Blow on Skaven Blitzers, and after Dodge or Wrodge on any Dark Elf.

Wrestle Witches get fouled, yes. But so what? Most fouling is bad math anyway, the pull-off rule on fouling assists makes it easy to keep fouls to +1 or so most of the time, and Witches are easy to rebuild. Wrestle combos so nicely with all their skills....

[NightDragon 2]

I'm glad I asked all these questions! For my new Skaven team would you Wrestle and Tackle with how many Linerats and would you take Fend on how many?

[mattgslater]

Wrestle or Dirty Player first, toolbox skill (Kick or Tackle) second, or Wrestle second for Dirty Players. Fend is a #3 choice at best, and usually signals the point where I've given up on actually making a player better and am ready to just put him in harm's way, give him a chance to be useful until he dies. Or maybe after Wrestle-Guard or Guard-Block (Block after Guard, Guard on all Linerat doubles until after Tackle, when you can take MB instead, or after a stat maybe). Fend/Guard is nice. Still, it will get him killed. Fend always gets you killed, or sits unused, moreso even than other positioning skills, because the guy who has Fend probably didn't first end up with Dodge or ST4 like the Side Step and Stand Firm guys, and probably costs less and has a shorter track to look forward to, so gets less support.

[NightDragon 2]

Back to wrestle: what skill would you take for an Amazon line woman first, wrestle or block, and why?

[mattgslater]

Team development and format really matter there. I like having some Wrestle early, as it means I can invest less in Tackle, and I like having some Wrestle for the line. So generally as a broad rule 3-4 Wrestle and the rest Block, probably going with one Wrestle early and then loading up on Block before putting Wrestle on the last couple. But if you're playing against a bunch of low-value teams without much Block, then just Block 'em all up.

[NightDragon 2]

And the wrestle players on LOS? Or how would you use them if not?

[mattgslater]

Yeah, LOS and/or one Wrackler protected to sweep.

[swilhelm73]

Wrestle generally gets better at higher TV - basically the more your opponents have block, the better wrestle is.

So to start with I'd go block - unless you face a lot of dwarves/norse.

later on you want three LOS players with wrestle, though if they survive long enough wracklers are nice.

[Aliboon]

Back to wrestle: what skill would you take for an Amazon line woman first, wrestle or block, and why?

I'd go wrestle personally (unless one doubled and got guard anyway) reason being that all 4 blitzers have block and I would get block for any catchers and throwers I had.

Block on the kicker too as she would be off the LOS and if she was wrestled down, then she loses her TZ and allows opo players to run through (although a kicker with wrestle and tackle makes for a good sweeper).

[babass]

Back to wrestle: what skill would you take for an Amazon line woman first, wrestle or block, and why?

The question is, What's your estimation on how many linerats will survive until the level 3 ?

[Aliboon]

The question is, What's your estimation on how many linerats will survive until the level 3 ?

Few. In my experience AV7 linos who don't double or roll stat increases die/get retired before 3 skills as APOs aren't used on them. I've recently got a couple of Woodie linos to Wrestle, Dodge and Fend, but they are now both dead (well ones's a Rotter actually) and although they were nice players, I wasn't gonna use my APO on them.

[Joemanji]

I've seen elf linos live to 3/4/5 skills as they resilient with blodge and can escape trouble reliably. But it isn't the norm.

[mattgslater]

High and Dark elf linos can pull it off pretty readily. AV7 ones, less so. Note, saving players is no longer the appropriate way to use the Apo, unless it just so happens that you take a death/retirement on a good player before you take a BH/KO, or keep all your bodies on the pitch through the first half. Apo is primarily for numbers on the pitch nowadays: BH, KO, or maaaaaaaybe a lost body, if it was a good one. And in that context, I'd absolutely Apo any player I'd willingly start: only Journeymen and rookies don't get Apo treatment if I lack reserves to cover. Oh, other exception is in the second half, if somehow I still have the Apo, then I start saving it for lost players, but I'd definitely use it on a two-skill guy in that case.

[Aliboon]

Note, saving players is no longer the appropriate way to use the Apo

Can't say I agree with that, some players are expendable, others aren't. It also depends what team you're playing and how many reserves you have. I'm not gonna APO a 3 normal skill woody lino first half when I've got a developed wardancer who could easily win me the game, or a future one. That lino may be a good player, but he's not gonna win me the game. Being a man down probably won't make much of a difference to the drive, being a wardancer down will.

Now if I had an 11 dwarf dwarf team, I probably would use the APO to keep him on the pitch, dwarves are awful playing men down.

Playing in a TV matched environment when everyone's TV is cut to the bone then I can see your point, but not in an open league.

[swilhelm73]

I have to agree with Aliboon.

I've lost games in scheduled leagues because of the loss of critical players in preceding matches. In MM player loss is mostly meaningless - if you lose that superstar in game X you'll just face a weaker opponent in game X+1.

In a scheduled league though that player value is replaced by inducements which are generally not worth the player value.

For example, my CDw team has one player with claw - mb, claw, po, dauntless, pro. He got a mis next game and my ag5 hob died in game 5 of the season. Game 6 against much higher TV Lizards turned into a loss in large measure because Grashnak was NOT worth the two players I was missing.