Help! I'm playing terribly...

[martynq]

The deep rush mainly consists of using your blitzers/which elves to punch a hole on one of the sidelines. Swarm that area with as many players as you can manage, and give the ball to a blitzer, who's protected with so many tackle zones, that your opponent can't reach him, at least not easily.

This is all very well... but what do you do with a rookie dark elf team when you don't have any blitzers or witch elves? (I went for re-rolls since I roll so terribly.)

Martyn

[martynq]

Interlocking TZs are the key to good defence and ball protection. Ideally those TZs ought to be overlapping too, so that a knockdown or pushback doesn't open a hole.

OK, this is going to point to my ignorance.... what's the difference between interlocking TZs and overlapping TZs?

As an example, it was through this board that I came across the concept of the loose cage:

X__X_
_____
__X_X
X____
___X_

Are the interlocking or overlapping? How do I improve on this sort of setup?

Blocking positions - so next to a downed opponent they can get a 2 dice block on next turn. So if one of your opponents follows up you can 2 dice block him back.

Do you mean using a setup like:

_X_X_
X_X_X

when defending against a cage... it means that if one of the front players is pushed back, they can't follow-up without risking blocks (hopefully with assists)?

Martyn

[Heiper]

By interlocking i would think Ian means that you put the TZ like a puzzle all over the board. Well I think its better to explain it like this.

Code: Select all

....|.......|....
-----------------
.X..|X..X..X|..X.
....|.......|....
....|.......|....
.X..|X..X..X|..X.
....|.......|....

Please correct me if I'm wrong Ian, but thats how I got the word interlocking. As you see none of the TZs are going over each other, but there is no open space either, always a TZ around (this is not a setup, just to explain interlocking, I would never use this as defense )

Overlaping on the other hand, is when you have TZ going over each other as you have above, one space between the two players would be an overlapping TZ.

Hope that helps (and that its correct)

[DoubleSkulls]

Heiper - that's right. Interlocking means next to one another, while overlapping means 2+ TZ's over the same square.

[Marcus]

Martyn: I think I can isolate what you're doing in one sentence -

You're not thinking ahead.

There should be three things you hold in mind as you move:

(1) What will my opponent do if I fail this action
(2) What will my opponent do if I don't fail this action
(3) What will I do if my opponent fails.

All 3 rely on what happens in your opponent's turn. You need to think about what they are going to want to do. Good positional play follows.

Starting with a basic example: I'm about to kick the ball to my opponent. That means he has the next turn after I set up. Point 1 above does not apply but points 2 and 3 are critical - What will my opponent try to do in their turn, what will I do if my opponent turns over while trying.

Are they going to pound everything in sight? Are they going to try fast score? Set up your players to frustrate their best plan. If they want to score fast, set up to frustrate their chances of breaking through the line. If they're going to pound your line, don't give them any targets and set up so you can break away quickly and attack the backfield. Your goal should always be to hear the other coach say "what the bloody hell do I do now?"

If you don't know how you're going to stop them, give it your best guess and then watch. See how their play unfolds, take action to prevent them doing what it is they want to do. Sure, by then it might be too late, but you've learnt something for next time.

This applies to every turn of the game. You should always be putting players where your opponent will want to be. Not where they are. If they want to get downfield, put players in the way. If they want to pass the ball, put a player near where they'd want to throw from. If they want to beat up players, use bait players to lure them away from the play while you go for the ball. The list goes on.

The japanese term is "Yomi" - It's all about getting inside your opponent's head and figuring out how they think, once you do that you can predict and direct their responses.

Start thinking more about the 3 points above and see if that helps.

[roysorlie]

This is all very well... but what do you do with a rookie dark elf team when you don't have any blitzers or witch elves? (I went for re-rolls since I roll so terribly.)

Ah. well, See here is a difficult issue.
I know there are many ways to set up your roster, and I see you went for more rerolls, and lots of line elves.

i wouldn't do that. I reckon, the 30K more Ipay for a Blitzer, who has +1 move and block, is more valuable than 1 reroll. Seeing as how I won't be able to avoid blocking altogether, I figure it is better to have the block skill, than having to reroll everytime i get the block result. I figure that saves me rerolls.

I would try to field a combination of blitzers and which elves to a total of 3.
I would skip buying an apoth, seeing as if anybody dies, I'll just start a new team.


But you've chosen to field Line elves. That makes the deep rush more difficult, as you stand less of a chance when blocking. There is no accounting for terrible luck, but you could do things to even the odds at least.

Go for a complete side rush. You have to blitz away the block. Than run as many players as you can past. Make it as impossible for the opponent as you can, to be able to reach you. Going for all linemen, you have lesser ma (6), no block skill, and no dodge skill. Which leaves you at a risk on every diceroll you make.

If I were you, and this is my personal preferred tactic, I would start a new team, if it's a rookie team anyway. getting TD's on blitzers and which elves is more fun than getting them on lineelves. Just make sure to give the linos a comp, so they advance if they get an mvp.

[martynq]

Martyn: You're not thinking ahead.

Ding! The penny has just dropped. Marcus, you are dead right - that is exactly what I am not doing! This is presumably the reason why I often find myself completely surprised by what my opponent has done when I play PBEM matches.

Now, all I have to do is work out how to do that and practice!

There should be three things you hold in mind as you move:

(1) What will my opponent do if I fail this action
(2) What will my opponent do if I don't fail this action
(3) What will I do if my opponent fails.

SNIP! ETC.

One question does spring to mind - how on earth are you supposed to achieve all this when you only have four minutes to play your turn in? (Plus two of the guys in my league think it is boring to use four minutes and would rather use two or three minutes!)

Thanks a huge amount Marcus... you have completely hit the nail on the head!

Martyn

[phil]

you know... i can't help but think that somewhere in martyn's head the phrase "gee, if _phil_ is having a good game against me, maybe i should get some advice" has appeared...

[Grumbledook]

You work out what they are trying to achieve when they are playing out their turn. Think about what you would do if you were in their position against your team. If you work this out while they are moving you can react quickly during your turn. I am a quick player. My second match at the dutch open i was the first one to finish and was asked if we had a 6 turn riot, which we didn't. In fact the same time i handed that in and and there was still in a match where they had a 5 turn riot being played ;]

Usually my turns take longer when something unexpected happens, or if its a mess where a wrong move can swing the match either way. On the whole though if you can work out whats likely to pan out, play with that in mind. You won't always be able to stop it but games are won if you score when on defence.

[martynq]

i can't help but think that somewhere in martyn's head the phrase "gee, if _phil_ is having a good game against me, maybe i should get some advice" has appeared...

Don't worry Phil, it is far more to do with the fact that I played a couple of games on Saturday (tabletop) where I felt I should have played much better than I did. It was against a friend who hasn't played for over a year, whereas I've had all this PBEM practice, yet I really didn't play nearly as well as I felt I ought to have done.

Martyn

[Skummy]

Martyn: One question does spring to mind - how on earth are you supposed to achieve all this when you only have four minutes to play your turn in? (Plus two of the guys in my league think it is boring to use four minutes and would rather use two or three minutes!)

This is something I can help out with, as my league dynamic is very similar. In 50 games in the last year with a 4:00 timer, I've run out of time only once. On Defence, look over your free players as he moves. Always think about where you are going to try blitzing (or dodging) his line and putting pressure on his ballcarrier. If he leaves any of your players free, plan where you are going to send them in advance.

Offence should be easier than defence, as you set the tone and get to throw the first blocks. If you are careful about your setup, he should be reacting to you. Gaining the initiative will let you force him to play off the line by sending players deep. Corny as it sounds, watch your opponent's eyes on offence. Most of the time, it will tell you where they are going to blitz you.

[martynq]

Sorry to come back to this, when really the last word should have been said, but I'm trying to get my brain into the sort of mindset I need.

OK, if I'm about to begin my turn, I should....

1) Do the no-brainder stuff (turning stunned players over).

2) Analyze my opponent's position to try to guess what he is trying to do next.

3) Try to move players to prevent him doing this and to further my own aims... all the time thinking about what happens if the current action were to fail.

I'd like to think I do this, but seriously doubt that I do. Hmmm, analyzing positional situations seems to be the key, though not at all straightforward.

I feel like such a dunce... a doctorate in abstract algebra really does not prepare one for BB!

Martyn

[phil]

trust me martyn, you're not the only one who feels tactically inept against this bunch... like i pointed out somewhere before recently, this board tends to attract the top of the bb crop... and when we form leagues out of this pool, those of us who aren't so good at teh _game_ can feel pretty foolish...

[Grumbledook]

Usually the most important thing in blood bowl is where your players are on the field. The more you get this right the better the chances you have. You learn more in every game.

[martynq]

trust me martyn, you're not the only one who feels tactically inept against this bunch... like i pointed out somewhere before recently, this board tends to attract the top of the bb crop... and when we form leagues out of this pool, those of us who aren't so good at teh _game_ can feel pretty foolish...

I'm guessing you've emphasized the word "game" to remind me not to take it all too seriously. You are, of course, dead right. I guess what's going through my mind, is that I play this game to enjoy myself... and I don't actually enjoy being humiliated. I really enjoyed the match against Dave which ended in a 2-2 draw... I think I also would have enjoyed it if I had failed to equalize at the end. I didn't enjoy my MBBL match against Robert Arnholm's skaven, since at no point did I really feel I had a clue what I could do to come close to him. I have no clue how to protect my players from your minotaur, so much of the same applies to the match against your chaos halfings... though I guess I *ought* to come away with a win (though I'm definitely not counting my chickens!).

I hope this makes sense: I enjoy the game when I play well, whether I win or lose, but end up feeling frustrated when I feel I play badly, equally whether I win or lose.

Usually the most important thing in blood bowl is where your players are on the field. The more you get this right the better the chances you have. You learn more in every game.

The trouble is that it seems to be an extremely slow process learning this. I'm now pretty convinced that the location of my players is a problem... but quite how many matches I have to wait till I learn where the correct placements are...?

Martyn