Timing Discussion...

D'Arquebus · Post by **D'Arquebus** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:27 am

djed, I seem to have come a little late to the party. However, I will add my two cents as it is contrary to some of the things said here.

I agree with tapec on this one, at least in the theory. I think it just needs a little refinement. That is not to say I think you shouldn't learn to play strong defence with elves, you should. You also need to spend a significant amount of your advances on developing skilled defence.

As to scoring ASAP all the time I think that is flawed. The tactics to taking some time is to split the elf team. Drop half the team back to form a moving screen around the thrower. Push the other 4-5 deep (or at least halfway) into the opponents half. Then instead of scoring immediately next turn keep the "scoring" or receiving elves moving into the open and into good scoring position. While this happens you can depending on the opposition just reinforce the thrower pocket or start a Quarterback sneak with the pocket moving towards the oppositions endzone. The first option if the opponent goes all out to sack the thrower, the other if they try to swamp the catchers.

Thus, I can drain the clock of 3-4 turns without Marcus screening off my thrower. If he tried it the pocket can open a small hole and the thrower can breeze through. Alternately, if the receivers remain well marked or I wish to take more time then I eventually run in with the thrower.

You see Marcus this is not a high risk play or at least no more high risk then failing the two turn pass attempt. Also it is playing to the opponent's weaknesses. While always reacting to your players' moves they are not hitting all your players (ie only 1 blitz) which is the traditional go slow tactic. And if they start to hurt you too much then just score and reset your team. Additionally, it will result in less time for them to score on their drive. That results in a weaker cage formation trying to move at speed or a dash through the open with their ball handler. That sort of play is where the elves excel not the strength teams.

And Zombie, my Dark Elves excelled at this very move without confining my victories to

complete newbies or total retards

The majority of players in my league have been playing since 3rd Ed was first released and are skilled at the game. Nor are they in any way mentally disabled.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:10 am

Well, what you've given here is totally different from what tapec said:

D'Arquebus wrote:Drop half the team back to form a moving screen around the thrower. [...] just reinforce the thrower pocket or start a Quarterback sneak with the pocket moving towards the oppositions endzone.

He was advocating spreading all your guys out, which leaves the ball carrier wide open. That's just plain stupid. Your strategy is a lot more sound and i don't have any major problem with it.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 10:12 am

Seconded. By screening and holding a pocket you're actually maintaining field position. By playing "catch me if you can" you're not.

The only objection I'd have is that by stalling down the clock with elves you're playing into a power team's style of play. I prefer to keep my opponent playing at a pace at which their team is uncomfortable. However, if, for any reason, you wanted to stall down the clock with elves against a power team, that's certainly a good way to go about it.

Heiper · Post by **Heiper** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:43 am

I disagree to some point with you Marcus. Stalling that 2-turn TD to 4 turns you are actually forcing them to play fast to get a TD before the half ends. You play a little of their game, only to force them play your game when they go on attack.

But then again, if the 4 turn fails, and it is a bigger chance for that to fail than the 2 turner, you are screwd

(I usually go 2 turn if possible, just because I feel safer with it)

Mortalman · Post by **Mortalman** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:42 pm

If a fast team receives and scores on it's 4th down, it leaves the opposition 5 turns to score in return, something it is probably easily capable of. I would say that while the Elf teams have a better offence than they do defence that doesn't mean their defence is bad. I think by trying to string out your scoring drive you risk more players battered, more chances to turn over the ball and you give up your big speed advantage.

I say just learn to play well defensively. You know you can rely on the 2 turn score to keep you level, so your defensive mandate should always be to take the ball off the opponent and score quickly with it. As another poster wrote: once you're 2-0 up against a hard team the game's pretty much in the bag.

djed · Post by **djed** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 8:20 pm

Thanks all, but i playesd the game yesterday evening and i lost!

Classical scheme: *i score T1
*He scores T8

*Then attacks and score T16...

I couldn t manage the cage, his 4 BlackOrc were often well put and my skills coudn t help enough (no leap or strip ball)...

Mortalman · Post by **Mortalman** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:08 am

That sucks, but don't feel too disheartened. Orc teams are very strong at the start of the league, but their gameplay doesn't really develop as they gain experience. Elf teams by contrast start with a high level of ability but specialise massively through time. Hence when you've got a few stars you'll find it easier to take the ball off him, and he'll still be trying to score in 8 turns while you dance away with the ball. As it is you might get one chance per half to steal the ball away, and if luck doesn't go your way chances are you'll score.

Don't despair, it happens to all of us. I play orcs and face a very similar situation when I play lizardmen!

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:23 am

Actually, if the truth be known, the main reason I like to score as quickly as possible is so I can get back on defence and turn my opponent over again. I've posted elsewhere on why any finesse team should be built around defence.

neverdodge · Post by **neverdodge** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:34 am

Marcus wrote:Actually, if the truth be known, the main reason I like to score as quickly as possible is so I can get back on defence and turn my opponent over again. I've posted elsewhere on why any finesse team should be built around defence.

I m totally agree with that, i think finesse team never have trouble in scoring, so they don t really need skill that help on offense, but defensive skill are very usefull for them.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:12 pm

Marcus wrote:I've posted elsewhere on why any finesse team should be built around defence.

I haven't seen that post, but i 100% agree with that statement. Only one thrower should be developped for offense, and the rest of the team should develop all their skills in term of denfense. It's not like you need any additional skills to score easily with elves anyway.

D'Arquebus · Post by **D'Arquebus** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:35 pm

Zombie wrote (seconded by Marcus)

Well, what you've given here is totally different from what tapec said:

Granted guys, I flew of the handle there without fully reading Tapec's post. I have argued the delayed score before and the beginning of Tapecs post led me to jump the gun and assume he had a similar tactic to mine. I did try to re-edit the post but as I was mostly finished by the time I realised my mistake I thought sod it, I still wanted to put the idea out there and could not be bothered to rewrite from scratch. (Too many lost posts with my internet and TBB crashing over the last couple of weeks. Sorry

D'Arquebus · Post by **D'Arquebus** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:53 pm

Anyways, onto the rest of the discussion.

MortalMan said

If a fast team receives and scores on it's 4th down, it leaves the opposition 5 turns to score in return, something it is probably easily capable of.

Possibly yes, but the point of the tactic is to then be able to delay the ST team by forming a line of defence across his path preferably 2 men deep to stop a hole being knocked in it. Just keep falling back 1 square and he will run out of time and be forced to sprint through the clear. That's when you nab him.

That said I also agree with those here who try to constantly get the turn around. That gives you more SPPs and can be a more enjoyable game. It has to be said I originally developed this tactic with Dark Elves against two Dwarf teams in my league. Having always seen DEs die terribly in previous coaches teams I was determined to minimise Casualities. The Dwarf players were some of the jammiest gits in the league at randomly slicing through armour so the less hits the better. Also, every time I kicked to them it was a Bad Kick and the ball was immediately inside a Dwarf cage

. I developed leap to get in there only to find about 4 guards apiece waiting for me

. Thus you can see that a quick turn around before the cage got rolling was never really an option.

The silver lining to this cloud? I did devlop a worthwile tactic in the delayed score, and I was also introduced to the glorious, if mostly underated, Kick skill

.