BBRC Hot List - 2003

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 7:31 pm

Cervidal wrote:The one question I personally would ask, regarding the 'new' skills mentioned at the bottom is the same thing a friend in the OBL always asks when something is introduced: "Just what are you trying to accomplish with this new rule/tweak/change?"

Thanks Galak.

New life to player development. After playing with certain skills for 2 years in the MBBL2, I've found them fun and balanced and a lot of the folks have suggested they make good LRB skills. However, like I agreed these are being removed from the list.

Galak

Hox-ii · Post by **Hox-ii** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 7:55 pm

Also, just as a follow-up to Zombie's posts, I do feel that a lot of the LRB should be reworded or reorganized, and that should be something to put in the Hot List. Just because the rule may be stated somewhere doesn't mean confusion won't occur, if that rule is stated in an unlikely location. So many of the questions in the Rules Queries section on this forum relate to stuff that is in the LRB, but is just hard to find.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 8:08 pm

Hox-ii wrote:Also, just as a follow-up to Zombie's posts, I do feel that a lot of the LRB should be reworded or reorganized, and that should be something to put in the Hot List. Just because the rule may be stated somewhere doesn't mean confusion won't occur, if that rule is stated in an unlikely location. So many of the questions in the Rules Queries section on this forum relate to stuff that is in the LRB, but is just hard to find.

Problem is Hox-ii ... that's too generic to put on the list. The list is about guiding the BBRC to see the specific problems identified over the last year to get them to fix them.

Last year the list worked very well. If you look at the Rules Review, 95% of the Q&As came from the 2002 Hot List ... (ie they listened and responded ... whether you agreed with what they said or not).

So adding something like "the LRB should be reworded or reorganized" to the Hot List will just get skipped over and I don't really blame them. If you have a specific example of a confusing rule where the rule is buried in a different spot from the rest of the text, I'll be happy to add it to the list.

Okay, I just reposted the Hot List. Added the blunderbuss question, added the pass=not caught=turnover text issue, deleted the last two items that were new experimental rule suggestions, and cleaned up several things that Zombie mentioned.

As stuff comes up I'll add it to the list to try to keep it as up to date as possible.

Galak

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 8:12 pm

Zombie wrote: Yeah, sorry. I totally screwed up on this one. - - - You're right, - - - I was totally wrong. - - -

Ok, who are you and what have you done to Zombie!?!

But back to the hot list:
It's a good start. Certainly it will obtain a number of items more before october, but it already contains quite a few good points. I don't agree with them all, but I won't go into them at this point.

I have to admit I dislike that opinions are incorporated clearly to the list. To illustrate: I would prefer to have links to TBB discussions etc instead of comments such as "everyone and even their neighbors who don't play Blood Bowl appear to hate". That way the entire spectrum of opinions on the subject have equal rights, as you can't list all of them on the list.

But I'm sure that at the moment this is mainly a collection phase, and the list will be very carefully examined next fall.

Great job!

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 8:13 pm

narkotic wrote:Maybe additionaly the question "Does a caught Blunderbus pass gives Completion SPPs in case that SW rules get official status and you can equip non-star player with these?"

That one I can answer with the BBRC's help. In the definition of how to get a Completion SPP, you'll see that a component is an ACCURATE PASS. Since the Blunderbuss never qualifies as that it cannot generate SPPs for being caught ... same thing with Hail Mary Pass ... a Hail Mary Pass by definition cannot earn SPPs if caught.

Page 39 of the LRB:
"Completions (COMP): A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by another player earns 1 Star Player point. "

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 8:17 pm

Mestari wrote:I have to admit I dislike that opinions are incorporated clearly to the list. To illustrate: I would prefer to have links to TBB discussions etc instead of comments such as "everyone and even their neighbors who don't play Blood Bowl appear to hate".

I already deleted that in the repost Teemu ... I'm going to claim Zombie's defense here. It was late when I was typing that up after being up with a sick 3 year old the previous night (ie little sleep ... long day).

The Hot List is very much not supposed to be my personal soap box. So if I put in comments like this while sleep deprived ... point them out and they are gone. So Teemu if you see my personal opinions baked into the list that don't match up with TBB and other forum discussion ... don't let me get away with it.

I look at the Hot List as the property of the BB online community. I just act as maintenance and gatekeeper.

Galak

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 9:49 pm

Can we have the query about "No forced catches" in a separate paragraph from the one about "No forced pickups". By appearing to link these two items those who want forced pickups tend to argue for forced catches (for consistency). But they are quite different situations - you choose to move onto the ball for a pickup.

Personally I'd prefer neither were forced but I don't want those who favour forced pickups to make us stay with forced catches.

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:29 pm

When making statements about polling the community, make it clear that you polled the BB Online community or specifically Talk Blood Bowl or Blood Bowl Central.

Although it doesn't always feel like it, the online BB community is actually a small percentage of the total Blood Bowl community.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:46 pm

neoliminal wrote:When making statements about polling the community, make it clear that you polled the BB Online community or specifically Talk Blood Bowl or Blood Bowl Central.

Although it doesn't always feel like it, the online BB community is actually a small percentage of the total Blood Bowl community.

Sure neo ... should I also mention then in the list that you as one of the BBRC members was one of the players who thought that lost TZ players could assist to be very precise who I polled so I could say the online BB Community and one BBRC member. .... okay that's a cheap shot, but I feel like your comment is as well.

Sorry JKL, I find this nit picky to most annoying extreme. You know who I'm talking about as well as the other 6 members of the BBRC and everyone here. I'm trying to help you guys and I get nitpicked back.

I'm very well aware of this fact, I think everyone is. I get feedback also through blood-bowl.net from a lot of folks who email directly with questions and concerns ... how should I document them for you.. Give me phone numbers for league commishes and I'll call them and get their input also. Sorry ... JKL ... just feeling very dumped on by your comment.

Galak

So fine, I'll change everything to say this like you asked, but I had to express this since it basically wrecked my mood for the rest of today ... carrying on, thanks John.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:47 pm

Zombie wrote:2. "Okay everyone and even their neighbors who don't play Blood Bowl appear to hate the 1/6 rule for Fan Factor rolls ... can we lose it?"

Huh? When was that discussed? I know i don't have anything against it!.

I started a long thread regarding that a long time back...about how it penalizes teams who win, and rewards teams who lose. There's already precious little in-game reward for winning (+1 winnings). Plus it's really lame to see the scenario where I win the game, cause 3 cas, and score 4td's and the fans go "these guys suck" and leave. WHAT?!

I think it was in the General Chat section...it was "Re: Rule of 1 and 6 on FF" or something like that.

Hox-ii · Post by **Hox-ii** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:48 pm

I agree with Bevan - I really couldn't care either way if catches are forced or not, but I really think that pickups should be forced. It's understood that some situations seem silly with forced pickups, but it adds a strategic element into the game in that it's a pretty good idea to put players around the ball to protect it, rather than pick it up sometimes.

I understand that this can be abused, but with non-forced pickups, agility teams will have an even easier time getting their hands on the ball. There won't be worries about the ball getting into a crowd, because anyone with leap could just knock it out of there.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 10:49 pm

Balrog wrote:Do that many people really hate the FF 1/6 rule? I don't find it that bad.

-Balrog

Oooh memememememe!!

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 11:01 pm

Hox-ii wrote:I agree with Bevan - I really couldn't care either way if catches are forced or not, but I really think that pickups should be forced. It's understood that some situations seem silly with forced pickups, but it adds a strategic element into the game in that it's a pretty good idea to put players around the ball to protect it, rather than pick it up sometimes.

I understand that this can be abused, but with non-forced pickups, agility teams will have an even easier time getting their hands on the ball. There won't be worries about the ball getting into a crowd, because anyone with leap could just knock it out of there.

well the forced catch thing causes problems because if you've already moved a guy and he catches the ball in 5 tackle zones, it can totally screw up your plan and actually punish you for good coaching (it's usually good to have assists on a blitz right?)

stuff like that. especially in conjunction with the changes in the way hand-offs occur, it can really screw people. "So this guy has the ball and there's nothing I can do about it. Can I hit him?"

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 11:05 pm

Galak, if it's any consolation, I appreciate what you're doing. And I think everyone knows what you meant.

This is a great topic and I appreciate the work you put in to make the Hot List. Good Work.

There...I almost feel like crying.

We can go back to generally disagreeing with each other in the most friendly of ways now.

Hox-ii · Post by **Hox-ii** » Mon Mar 24, 2003 11:11 pm

Oh definitely, I don't want to make it seem like I'm disagreeing with him... I'm just bringing up some points that I feel are worth mentioning as a player of Blood Bowl.

I think this is an excellent idea, and top notches to Galak for bringing all of these issues together.

Talk Fantasy Football

BBRC Hot List - 2003

Forced pickups