SPP for completions, point of contentio

Shadow_Dragon · Post by **Shadow_Dragon** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:48 am

But the pass isn't completed if it's dropped! Okay it's damned handy that someone else managed to catch it as it bounced about the place but the fact remains the pass wasn't completed! But i suppose that's just my opinion!
Heaven forbid spp's would be a little harder to get!

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 3:35 am

Shadow_Dragon wrote:But the pass isn't completed if it's dropped!

In football, the play is stopped if the ball is dropped. In Blood Bowl, play can continue as long as someone on your team eventually ends up with it. Since it succeeded in advancing the ball and avoiding a turnover, common sense says to award it a completion.

Plus, that's what the rulebook says to due, so why argue? It makes sense AND it's clear in the rulebook.

Shadow_Dragon · Post by **Shadow_Dragon** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:47 pm

Well fair enough!
I think if the rule was clear this thread wouldn't be here, but i shan't argue!

I think your point is sound, but i still think mine is too, so i'll leave it there!

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:02 pm

The rule IS clear, and Milo has already said that it's clear enough that it won't be changed.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:37 am

Skummy wrote:Darkson: Please let me know if you can find that link. It's something that needs clarification in the rulebook. I was looking for it just the other day, and couldn't find evidence to the contrary.

I think this is the one, though I haven't checked through it fully.

viewtopic.php?t=1838&highlight=

Shadow_Dragon · Post by **Shadow_Dragon** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:59 am

Zombie wrote:The rule IS clear, and Milo has already said that it's clear enough that it won't be changed.

COMPLETIONS (COMP): A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by another player earns 1 Star Player point. An accurate pass is called a 'completion' or complete pass. Note that the ball must be caught by a player from the same team, otherwise it is not complete!

Now i have not once said you are wrong, but what i also say is i'm not wrong, i think from how the rule is written it isn't 100% clear and i play it as makes sense to me! Any pass that isn't caught i would call incomplete EVEN if it is retrieved by anothr player on your team!
I'm not asking for it to be changed because i'm doing what i think it says!
I don't believe i'm being irrational!

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:42 pm

Shadow_Dragon wrote:
COMPLETIONS (COMP): A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by another player earns 1 Star Player point. An accurate pass is called a 'completion' or complete pass. Note that the ball must be caught by a player from the same team, otherwise it is not complete!
Now i have not once said you are wrong, but what i also say is i'm not wrong, i think from how the rule is written it isn't 100% clear and i play it as makes sense to me! Any pass that isn't caught i would call incomplete EVEN if it is retrieved by anothr player on your team!
I'm not asking for it to be changed because i'm doing what i think it says!
I don't believe i'm being irrational!

Actually while you are playing it as it makes sense you are not playing it as it reads. In order to get a completion the text is VERY clear. You need two things:

1) An accurate pass
2) The ball is caught by another player from your team other than the passer.

Nothing in the text says anything about bouncing or not being the intended receiver. You are adding all that in because you want to. Bottom line: Zombie is 100% correct with all his posts and Milo is correct also this one doesn't need official clarification. The rulebook is already very clear.

Galak

Sceadeau · Post by **Sceadeau** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:43 pm

Actually while you are playing it as it makes sense you are not playing it as it reads. In order to get a completion the text is VERY clear. You need two things:

1) An accurate pass
2) The ball is caught by another player from your team other than the passer.

Nothing in the text says anything about bouncing or not being the intended receiver. You are adding all that in because you want to. Bottom line: Zombie is 100% correct with all his posts and Milo is correct also this one doesn't need official clarification. The rulebook is already very clear.
Galak

Actually Galak, it doesn't really say what you say it says. If you broke it down from the wording..it says it must:

1) Be an accurate pass
2) The accurate pass must be caught by another player from your team

Please note, I'm perfectly aware this does not and should not cause a turnover, this is strictly for figuring out the actual rule for a SPP based on a completion.

On turnover, it says:

"3. The ball is passed and not caught by a player from the moving team"

This is slightly different than the wording for a pass.

So my question is here, reworded:

Is a bouncing ball that results from an accurate pass being dropped (or landing in an empty square), still an accurate pass?

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:58 pm

Sceadeau wrote: Is a bouncing ball that results from an accurate pass being dropped (or landing in an empty square), still an accurate pass?

Yes.

The pass was accurate. The failure of the catch (or passing to an empty square) does not change the fact the pass was "accurate."

Accurate has a very precise meaning in BB - it does not have the same general meaning that it has in English.

Shadow_Dragon · Post by **Shadow_Dragon** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 12:11 am

I understand what your saying Galak and it makes sense!

I just play the rule as i read it! If i read it different to what seems everyone else does, then clearly my internal encyclopedia is off! Sorry, doesn't mean i'm going to change the way i play though!

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:34 am

Sceadeau wrote:Is a bouncing ball that results from an accurate pass being dropped (or landing in an empty square), still an accurate pass?

Absolutely without question it is. What the catcher does or anyone else after I roll the ball doesn't matter. When the passer threw the ball he had 3 possible results: Fumble, Inaccurate, and Accurate for the pass. This determination is based ENTIRELY on the passing roll. So what happens after cannot in any way shape or form change this.

Passer rolls a 6 and throws an accurate pass and the catcher fails the roll and the guy next to him catches the bounce ... I then ask you the following question: "When the thrower threw the ball was the pass accurate?" Since the answer is still yes, you've done nothing to change the status of the pass ... ie the catch roll was irrelevant to the conversion.

Again the completion requires two components.

In the above, ask those 2 components individually

1) Did the Passer throw an accurate pass? (Yes, he did)
2) Did someone from his team other than himself catch the ball (Yes, he did)

Its a completion ... the extra stuff that happened has zero importance. The only thing that matter is a Yes answer to those 2 questions.

Galak

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:44 pm

I think we also play that throwing an accurate pass that is then not caught, but bouncess and is caught by a fellow team member gives SPP, but re-reading it exactly I agree with some other people here that you could read the following:

A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by another player from the same team earns 1 SPP.

If the pass is accurate, but the catch fails that means the pass has handed; the ball is no longer being passed, and in "controlled flight" but is now bouncing around freely, and is thus a "bouncing ball" now. The player who then catches it, is not catching an accurate pass, but a bouncing ball.

R

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:44 pm

Maybe something for the BBRC to clarify?

R

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:05 pm

it is clear :p

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:11 pm

Well, considering the length of the discussion here, it is not clear.
I always thought that you did get the SPP's but reading the arguments here and carefully rereading the rules made me doubt it. If it is clear except to a select few, it should be real easy for the BBRC to just make it that more by putting down that once sentence necessary to make it crystal. If it is not clear to the people in the BBRC (thus, if they have different opinions on the matter); it is necessary to discuss and clarify it.

R