Attempting to put together an Expanded Kick-Off table.

[Relborn]

Ohh then I misunderstood this one. I thought they just get 4 bonus actions before the opponent (with 2 Blitz actions it would be hefty enough)

[Darkson]

Weather.

Maybe you could use some of these weather results in your table.

viewtopic.php?t=2241&highlight=

[gallowin]

Random events must be fan and spectacular, but they should be at a level which doesn't completely destroy the enjoyment of the game by those who concentrate on the tactical aspect. And IMO the corner blitz (if you're allowed four blitzes) is far too devastating as it defies a basic controlling mechanic employed by the rules, namely the "only one blitz per turn"-mechanic.

I don't buy your "game mechanic" rationale. Quick Snap clearly breaks team set up rules (being in the opponent's half of the pitch, three players in the wide zone, etc.) or good ol Blitz itself lets you take a turn w/o moving the turn marker.

The kick off table is part of the tactical aspect. When setting up your defense, do you line up 1 square off the line or two? You're already figuring on what might be rolled for a kick-off. This is just one more thing to plan for.

Mestari, have you experimented with this kick off result before blasting it?

[Pink Horror]

I'm wondering how many people are in favor of a d66 kickoff table. Don't get me wrong, I think the kickoff table could use some new events and some other adjustments, but going from 11 possible events every kickoff to 30 seems like overdoing it. Is there another logical, easy way to do this? Well, I think there is.

First, we ought to expand the kickoff table a little. Let's go from 11 events to 13 events, with a d8 + d6 roll. The table would be a little easier to memorize this way, don't you think?

Second, the basic kickoff table wold become more generic, like this:

02: Unruly Crowd (Kicking)
03: Unfair Action (Kicking)
04: Act of Nuffle (Kicking)
05: Big Play (Kicking)
06: Advantage (Kicking)
07: Momentum Shift (Kicking)
08: Weather Change
09: Momentum Shift (Receiving)
10: Advantage (Receiving)
11: Big Play (Receiving)
12: Act of Nuffle (Receiving)
13: Unfair Action (Receiving)
14: Unruly Crowd (Receiving)

Why do that, you ask? Well, it sets up the third part. Each team, as part of its pregame, can set up a game plan on the back of the team roster. For each choice on the kickoff table other than weather change, you can choose what you want to have happen when the roll comes up in your favor. The game plan represents the crowd infiltrators, trick plays, and demonic pacts that your team makes sure to have ready for each game. Each choice on the table should have its own list. Momentum Shift, Act of Nuffle, Unfair Action, and Angry Mob would still have some randomness to determine which team gets assaulted or helped, so choosing something like Pitch Invasion for your Angry Mob selection could come back to get you. Not every plan works perfectly.

I like this gameplan idea because it lets you make some extra decisions for your team and it lets you have a large number of kickoff table results without the usual corresponding large kickoff table. Whenever you come up with a new event, just give it a category and you can add it seamlessly to the game without rewriting the whole darn thing again.

A few of the current events should be watered down a bit for this change, so they aren't always taken. Blitz could be broken up into different kinds of blitzes (I think Corner Blitz, with 4 Blitzes, is over the top), Pitch Invasion might affect less players or cause less damage per player, and Riot could be shortened. Some events could have several categories (most events would have at least two - kicking and receiving).

Well, that's it. The fleshing out of this idea could include dozens of choices, with descriptions and rules for all sorts of strange plays and acts of Nuffle.



Pink Horror

[Mestari]

Mestari, have you experimented with this kick off result before blasting it?

I in turn don't buy your game-mechanic rationale

The difference between quick snap and blitz and the suggested corner blitz is that corner blitz (if I read it right) can give you four blitz actions. And the limitation on the number of blitzes per turn is, IMO, a fundamental game mechanic that shouldn't be broken lightly, and especially not with 3 extra blitzes.
I showed an example already which shows how the corner blitz is far more effective than a normal blitz. I have provided my case there, please explain how you think it is not over-effective.

PS. Let me wholeheartedly support Pink Horrors suggestion. A better one, definitely. An excellent idea.

[bingbong186]

Perhaps Corner Blitz could be changed to allow ONE player from EACH Wide Zone to make a blitz, while the other two are allowed Move actions.I agree that 4 blitzes is very heavy handed, but 2 would be much more reasonable while still giving the defence a bit of an advantage.

[DoubleSkulls]

I quite like the D66 format - it is used elsewhere in the rules.

However I would like to see all the similar results bunched together - e.g. make Weather Change on 11-16 - as this makes it easier to remember the results without having to refer to the actual table.

Ian

[Valen]

I like the idea of McDeths kick off table.

I also like Gallowins "Check out the Cheerleaders".

And stop moaning about corner blitz , I think it's a great idea.

[McDeth]

Here's where i am so far

PRIMARY KICK OFF TABLE

2 ROLL ON ONE OFF EVENTS TABLE
3-4 ROLL ON NORMAL EVENTS TABLE
5-6 NOTHING HAPPENS
7 ROLL ON WEATHER TABLE
8-9 NOTHING HAPPENS
10-11 ROLL ON NORMAL EVENTS TABLE
12 ROLL ON ONE OFF EVENTS TABLE


NORMAL EVENTS TABLE

2 WOOF WOOF: Just as the ball comes to rest for the final time after kick off, a dog runs on the pitch and races for the ball. If the ball is in the possesion of a player the dog bites the player ( Armour roll ) then grabs the ball and runs with it for D6 squares in a random D8 scatter, then drops it. If the ball goes into the crowd it is thrown back in and play continues as normal and no touchback is awarded. If the ball is carried into the kicking teams half or ends up their then play continues as normal and no touchback is awarded )

3 ITS JUST TOO EASY : The winning side are so confident and blasé, that they cannot use a re-roll for the remainder of this drive. If the scores are level ignore this result.

4 BOOING FANS:As per Neo's chart

5 BRILLIANT COACHING:As per original Table

6 GREAT KICK:As per Neo's chart

7 CHEERING FANS: As per original Table

8 BAD KICK:As per original Table

9 QUICK SNAP:As per original Table

10 PERFECT DEFENCE:As per original Table

11 SNEAKY PLAYER:Both teams roll 1 D6 and add their number of coaches to the score. The winning coach points out to one of his LOS players that the ref is looking the other way, and he may take a free block action before the start of the turn.

12 STREAKER:Both teams roll 1 D6 and add their Fan factor to the score. A streaker runs into the losers half. Roll 1D6 ( 1-3 runs into the left wide zone, 4-6 into the right wide zone The figute is placed by the opposite coach and all players within 3 squares lose their tackle zone. Also any player moving within 3 squares of the Streaker while she is on the pitch are affected, For the their turn and the opposition turn. remove the streaker after the turns elapse.


ONE OFF EVENTS TABLE

2 RIOT: As per original Table

3 GET THE REF:As per original Table

4 THE BARMY ARMY:Roll a D6 and add Fan Factor & Cheerleaders to the score. The winners may draw a random Dirty Trick Item from the Barmy Army who have turned up to watch their team.

5 TIME WASTING: The kicking team are called for time wasting and the receiving team are awarded an automatic touchback.

6 DRUNKEN PLAYER: Roll a D6 and add the number of coaches. One random player from the losing side is placed stunned as the effects of last nights session catches up with him

7 BLITZ: For the kicking team Up to 3 Players may take an action, rather than the whole team

8 AUTOGRAPH HUNTER: Roll a D6 and add the teams Fan factor. An autograph hunter on the sidelines of the team winning the roll has managed to distract any player of the opposition to the nearest sideline where he is busy signing his autograph. This player may not move until his teams next turn.

9 SLIPPERY BALL:The kicking team have managed to grease the ball, making it exceedingly difficult to pick up. The first attempt to pick it up suffers a -2 modifier. After that the grease is wiped off and continues as normal.

10 FRIENDLY WIZARD:Roll a D6 and add Fan Factor & Cheerleaders to the score. The winners may draw a random Magic Item from a friendly wizard who has turned up to watch his team.

11 THROW A ROCK:As per original Table

12 PITCH INVASION:As per original Table

Obviously most of this has come from other sources i've just taken my favourites and added a couple of my own ( Friendly Wizard and Barmy Army )

[neoliminal]

In defense of Corner Blitz.

First off, it's not a turn. If I suggest that during a normal turn you could have 4 Blitz actions, then yes, that would be a problem, but this isn't a turn.

Second, compare this to a Blitz result (Full Blitz) and you'll quickly see that this is far less in the way of effect. With Full Blitz you get to Block everyone on the line (at least three blocks) and then move players on to the other half of the pitch (who knows how many you put there) and one blitz which will surely have an advantage block. Compare that to the Corner Blitz where you most likely wont have an advantage block without moving someone in the widezone first, thus limiting your effect.

Third, to have any sort of penetration on the other players half of the pitch, you'd have to give up wide zone coverage.

[neoliminal]

I'm wondering how many people are in favor of a d66 kickoff table. Don't get me wrong, I think the kickoff table could use some new events and some other adjustments, but going from 11 possible events every kickoff to 30 seems like overdoing it. Is there another logical, easy way to do this? Well, I think there is.

The odds that something will happen are the same. It's not like you're cramming 30 events into a game rather than 11. More importantly the ratio of effect is the same, which means that you're as likely to have a RIOT on both charts, and as likely to have a Blitz-like event on both charts, but now the blitz results are more varied.

I'm not in favour of making up new mechanics for charts. I've never seen a d8+d6 chart in a GW game before (much less anywhere else). The other part about planning is interesting, and the BBRC as one point was thinking along those lines for replacement of special play cards, but we found it to be too complicated in the end.

YMMV.

[Pink Horror]

Maybe the d6+d8 table is hard to accept. That's okay, the planning system works with a 2d6 table as well. I don't know about you, but here are the two things I'd want to do most if I were to change the kickoff table:

1) Keep the amount of look-ups to a minimum.

2) Tweak some of those too-strong events (Riot, Pitch Invasion, and Blitz!).

My memory isn't so good. I'm not going to be able to recall what a 45 or 21 roll is off the top of my head, so I'll have to go to the rulebook almost every kickoff. With a planning system, though, each coach can be expected to know the 10-12 events on his sheet, so the kickoff table shouldn't have to be consulted.

As for Corner Blitz, your best defense seems to be in comparing it to Blitz. That isn't good. I don't think anyone wants any new results that are even close to Blitz. Are all the players in the wide zones really corners? How about a compromise: one player from each widezone can take a free blitz action.


Pink Horror

[Cervidal]

What if that result is rolled and you have no one in the wide zones? When I'm playing my Lizardmen, I give up those wings on most defenses because it's easy to pin whatever two or three players they're bringing throgh to my side. Playing my HE, I usually only keep a Lion Warrior in each wing, leaving the running lane down the sideline completely open. Corner Blitz is only effective if you max out your coverage on the sides, and not all defenses do that.

That said... look at the players you usually keep on the wings. They don't tend to be your muscle players but rather S3 Blitzers or Catchers. Even if an Orc team put all four of their Black Orcs on the sides, the damage isn't normally going to be any worse than four players knocked over, maybe one injured. Blitz usually causes more havoc than that.

[Mestari]

PH: Yes, you should make it into a 2d6 system. Maybe you should put the suggestion together and start another thread on the subject.

[Longshot]

Neo, could you answer to my answers in page 2?
I dont know if you have seen what i said, or maybe i didnt see the answer