Witch elf double five advice?

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:03 pm

See, I think Leap is an awesome #3 for Witch Elves, or even a #2 in some cases. Leap/Block/Frenzy more-or-less assures you of a crowd push on your first offensive turn, unless your opponent cedes the wide zone, in which case it seriously cuts into any doubt about your ability to score. It also keeps the defensive TD ratio up by giving you better blitzing angles. And it forces bashy offenses with ball problems (read: most of 'em) to get very careful and creative about their cages, which saves elvish lives.

AK_Dave · Post by **AK_Dave** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:31 pm

Pro is nice on DEs. Not as an early skill, but once you've hit the core 2-3 skills and still haven't managed to roll a doubles to get Mighty Blow then Pro looks pretty good. Pro makes everything, except Armor/Injury rolls, just a little bit better.

Witch Elf: Block, Sidestep, Leap... and Pro.
Blitzer: Dodge, Sidestep, Leap... and Pro.

Dauntless is nice here and there. But when I have it I find I don't count on it. I set up for a 1D block and hope Dauntless makes it 2D. I guess I don't count on it much, because the way I use it I feel like I'm better off with Pro to reroll the 1D block than Dauntless to maybe make it a 2D block.

I also feel like I'm better off with Pro if I've already filled my "must have" 2-3 skills and haven't rolled a doubles/stat. Like with Chaos, its a placeholder for later development.

On the other hand, Dauntless is much easier to use with LRB5. Basically: d6, roll higher than the difference in ST that you need. For a +1, roll 2+, for a +2, roll 3+. Etc. So its only 3+ for a DE to get 1D against an Ogre. Not too shabby. But I'd love to have Pro to help me make that roll.

But yeah, DEs really need to take advantage of every doubles and stat roll they get or their long-term development lags against purely bashy teams that turn into CAS machines.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:11 am

mattgslater wrote:See, I think Leap is an awesome #3 for Witch Elves, or even a #2 in some cases. Leap/Block/Frenzy more-or-less assures you of a crowd push on your first offensive turn, unless your opponent cedes the wide zone, in which case it seriously cuts into any doubt about your ability to score. It also keeps the defensive TD ratio up by giving you better blitzing angles. And it forces bashy offenses with ball problems (read: most of 'em) to get very careful and creative about their cages, which saves elvish lives.

A great tactic, but I've only used it on AG 5 Witches. My thoughts is that it is too risky on an AG 4 piece.

Normally, I use my blitzers to leap, with the occasional linemen who gets +AG.

TeflonDon · Post by **TeflonDon** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:01 pm

I ended up with the MV increase, and haven't really had the chance to use it. I've only played one game with the team since, and that was a loss against a bunch of Chaos Dwarves, who just wouldn't drop the ball when blitzed:-)

However, I am quite certain that the MV increase will come in very handy against other teams.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:35 pm

Jural wrote:Normally, I use my blitzers to leap, with the occasional linemen who gets +AG.

That's my Pro Elf strategy: I get Leap/Frenzy on a Blitzer and Leap/Dodge on a Catcher. But Witches start with Frenzy so you might hesitate to put it on a Blitzer (while Witches will get Block first anyway), and Leap/Frenzy is awesome. Leap/Dodge is also pretty good.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:09 pm

For me it's all about cost vs. risk. My Dark Elves are always cash strapped. Leapers will fall down sometimes, and fouls happen. It's better (in my mind) to use the AV 8, cheaper player for leap, especially considering how quickly (6 SPP) he can be replaced. For Witches, you are looking at 16 SPP's minimum before replacing leap... Because I don't think anyone would build a team around Leap, Frenzy, and no block!

The other issue is what the Witch Elves bring to the team- it's likely they are your only frenziers, and if they are also your only leapers, it really hurts if one goes down. So you'll need additional leapers and additional Frenziers (Although I often just run with the 2 Witch Elves.)

So I prefer keeping my blitzers with leap. Unless I get an AG 5 Witch. But it's really interesting reading the well reasoned counter argument... I may just give a Dark Elf team a whirl in the MBBL and try out your strategy!

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:27 am

What I'm saying is that Leap/Frenzy rocks. so if you're going to get Blitzers with Leap, get one Frenzy too. That gives you three Frenzy players, though, which is risky.

I'd never advocate Leap before Block on a Witch. That'd be irresponsible.

TeflonDon · Post by **TeflonDon** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:14 pm

Sorry to resurrect this, but I wanted to give some more input on how things went.

I've only played two more friendly games with the team, as I haven't entered it in tournaments recently (we have a setup where all of us have several teams and then enter them in short-term tournaments), and both have been losses. The team desperately needs block (on the MV witch, the ST4 runner, and on at least one of the guard linemen) and tackle (on some of the blitzers).

However, the MV-increase has served me well. This witch has been my go-to girl more than once, and once she gets block (two lousy SPPs away) I'm sure she'll bloom. Actually once she and the runner gets block, and two of the blitzers tackle I am pretty sure that the 80K raise i TV will feel like a 300K i actual value. But that'll come in handy as the team feels severely overvalued at the moment.

jammydodger · Post by **jammydodger** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:45 am

just caught up with this thread because it faces exactly the problem i'm in (5+5 as first skill on ghoul, first skill for my undead team). glad to hear, as i'm going to be doing the same thing, that the decision, even if it didn't help out immediately, does actually work. whilst it does weaken your starting skill lot (no block, or in my case no sure hands) it does mean that you’ve got potential that can come in useful later on. it also means that you have the chance to spp up – through tds, through blitzs and through not failing gfis and dying!

good luck to you

jammer