Norse remain tier1 at high TV / vs AV9

[Smeborg]

Matt - I am not sure that experienced coaches will ever agree on what are the best teams. For example, I would put Pro-Elves in your Cadillac tier, I would not put Amazons there in a league of any length. I would also put Vampires higher, but only in the hands of a good coach.

I think Norse are a good team, it's just that I suspect require a higher standard of coaching skill (and development strategy) to compete at the same level as the best teams. Like any AV7 team, they can go pear-shaped at any time, but I don't regard this as a great drawback - the AV9 teams can also go pear-shaped against Claw.

All the best.

[Purplegoo]

so, we have to wait until the BB gods of the FUMBBL Olymp decide to enlighten us mere mortals.
I have played over 150 Ranked games and the difference is just not that great. Just because you did not have a "real" encounter, nobody else had? I will never understand how people can get so arrogant over a dice-game.

Or, option b, you can stop looking for things that aren't there?

I wasn't saying FUMBBL is the source of all knowledge, infact, I was saying the very opposite regarding the points being presented in this thread supported by games in the FFB division. It might at one stage be an area to suggest robust data, it might not be. I'm also unconvinced how personal experience and anecdotal stories from the majority of others I've spoken to can be perceived as arrogance in terms of the level of competition in the test division (well - any more so than you deciding the opposite); well, actually I can, I know how the internet works and people just look for issues that aren't there for forum mileage. You have form in this regard, afterall, after your last attempt at picking this fight on FUMBBL!

I remember why I don't contribute now! Back to doing actual work I go...

[Carnis]

Norse are an AV7 team, without the AG to build free formations. They take damage, they need their linefodder, and they need the linefodder to stay on track. But there is no "track," because they need doubles or 11 within 16 SPP to justify their cost, and there's no major value jump at 6SPP. The odds of that are 1-[(7/9)^2], or 32/81 ≈ 40%. So 60% of your non-Kick linemen fall into diminishing returns at 16 SPP. The positionals all have nice tracks open, but the ST3 guys are AV7 SPP hogs on a team with a high peak value that takes a lot of damage, and that's never a happy mix.

I really havent had problems with lineman development at all. Chance of a double on the 2nd skill are not that bad, and the chance of surviving to 2nd skill without a double are not that good either . My linemen with skills now have:

Guard
Fend
Fend, Guard
Dirty player
+ST/+AV/Guard/Tackle - this one's a keeper, but not really *that* rare either..

My dead players include 4 fend players, 1 kicker & 1 dp, only 2 skillless noobs. I'd really need another DP so I really still welcome new SPP linesmen at 2,2m value..

Pgoo:

Usually when you post stuff on forums, here or on fumbbl, you come out as arrogant, I don't know if it's the message or how it's spelled out that causes it, but I don't think soranos' comments are all that surprising considering how you write. I'm not a native speaker, so maybe it's a language issue.. It doesn't seem intentional anyway.

[SillySod]

.... in the world!







(anyone who things Purplegoo is arrogant amuses me)

[PairODice]

I am 20+ games in with Norse in a large very competitive tabletop league. My experience is that the TV220+ Chaos teams are tough competition; these Chaos(and other high TV bash) teams are still getting better while it seems that the Norse ( there are several Norse teams of like experience in the league) are losing the numbers game either on the field and/or the scoreboard and have trouble skilling up replacement players in key positions(Runner/Catcher, Snow Troll,etc..). Player death or crippling injury also saps the treasury relative to higher AV teams that do not have to go to the well quite so often. If the SPPs come in all the right places thanks to lucky MVP awards and some key plays and you can field a full meal real deal developed core of positionals than the Norse are to be feared but keeping that group of key players in action is problematic with MNGs, etc.. and getting to the point of that full meal deal team is harder if it has not been established before you have to face the big TV teams.

[Carnis]

Yeps, Chaos is extremely powerful at TV >2.2m. Same as slayer-nurgle.

Anyway, I think the main problem at high TV is that only a singular player has Claw access and is really impossible to properly protect & use at the same time - also you arent really guaranteed that he gets block at all. Still, I've given chaos coaches a run for their money frequently, it's always costly, but they do lose players as well.. My Block/MB/Multipleblock/Guard troll starting the half with two 2 die claw/mb-blocks is a real helper though!

Necs would be a better team vs high chaos as they fairly frequently have 2 MB/claw players & also have blanket regen + cheap zombie fodder.

Also its not chaos teams that spam MB/claw that are a problem, its the teams who spam piling on as well, so its not that common really. A Good norseman can outbash most claw spamming chaos by ignoring claw & focusing on the beastmen (while rr'ing armor with PO as well).

Edit:
While on the subject of chaos - I just LOVE to blitz a minotaur with a Block/MB/PO ulf (or any ST4 MB/PO/Block player for the matter), chances are they dont have block, chances of getting a CAS are really nice considering he has AV8 (pass armor on 5/12), thick skull (usually dont get a KO, either a stun or a CAS after/before piling on), frenzy (after a few blitzes, they are stuck in the mid of the combat usually). I've dug a grave for a number of minos in my fumbbl beta career.