Why did Elves evolve to 4 AG across the board?

[Digger Goreman]

So, instead of all this mucking about, if elves are supposed to be THE passing team, unite the rosters (Keebler United) with Ag3 across the board, and give PA (or PAG, if you must) access to all the players, along with appropriate passing skilled positionals....

Rework those mothers and cut the fairy fat....

[Darkson]

No thanks. Sticking all the rosters into one is boring, and the combined roster would need major reworking to get the costs right.
Take out Wood Elfs and the rest aren't an issue - good teams yes, the best no.

[Dr. Von Richten]

No thanks. Sticking all the rosters into one is boring, and the combined roster would need major reworking to get the costs right.
Take out Wood Elfs and the rest aren't an issue - good teams yes, the best no.

Wood Elfs are good, very good, especcially at low to mid TV, but AV 7 will cost them dearly once opponents get some TacklePOMB. Aside from the Wardancers (and the Tree, of course), I prefer the High Elf version of every positional, and even those Wardancers will eventually (though that takes a long time) be trumped by High Elf Catchers and Blitzers.

[fidius]

Solution is to add two skills :
Agile
This player counts as having an extra point of AG when dodging.
Cool
This player counts as having an extra point of AG for everything except dodging.

While I agree that the game needs more granularity in general and particularly with AG, I'm torn whether the more straightforward answer is to add Cool/Agile, or add a number to the statline. ie: have separate scores for Mobility and Ballhandling.

Also I'm not sure this would make as much difference as we might think. On Liz and Orc teams in particular, a +AG is most useful in making pickups less risky, isn't it? Obviously AG4 Stunty is broken, yes, but that AG4 ballhandler is arguably the real game-changer. I'd take the Cool on the first 1 or 2, and Agile on any others (should I be so lucky).

I suspect the main thing that makes AG4 so good for Elves is how well it synergizes with reroll skills (Dodge, Sure Hands). Thus splitting Dodge might be enough. And/or, as mentioned, taking A access away from Linos, or perhaps only AV8 Linos.

[Joemanji]

While I agree that the game needs more granularity in general and particularly with AG, I'm torn whether the more straightforward answer is to add Cool/Agile, or add a number to the statline. ie: have separate scores for Mobility and Ballhandling.

The two are functionally identical. It is just a case of whether you want to express it as an extra stat (when most often the two will be the same) or a skill (not quite as clear as separate stats).

[Regash]

Adding stats or complicating this game with stats that simulate stats is definitely not the way, at least not in my opinion.
Where will it end?
Do you really wanna roll a complete D&D Charakter for each player with tons of stats, skills, traits?
Maybe even with hit zones and armour types?

C'mon, Blood Bowl is a fun boardgame! Lets keep it in a way that it can be played fast and without checking some rules every two minutes.

Really, it's a game.
Games are supposed to help you have some fun and a good time.
Don't take games that serious.

Elves are good at dodging and handling the ball?
Well, according to fantasy literature, they are also adept in magic, live in harmony with nature, shoot their bows incredibly accurate and have eyesight beyond humans belief.
So yes, I think AG4 is alright with them...

[Joemanji]

Mobility and agility are pretty similar right? Why bother having separate stats for MA and AG? Might as well just combine them, makes it even simpler and thus definitely more fun! Yay!

[Regash]

Mobility and agility are pretty similar right? Why bother having separate stats for MA and AG?

Just because you can run fast doesn't mean you are a good ball handler or good at dodging.

[Joemanji]

... and just because you are a good ball handler doesn't mean you are good at dodging.

[Regash]

Ever heard of the phrase "Keep it nice and simple!"?

I'm really sorry about having my own opinion.

[Smeborg]

Adding stats or complicating this game with stats that simulate stats is definitely not the way, at least not in my opinion.
Where will it end?
Do you really wanna roll a complete D&D Charakter for each player with tons of stats, skills, traits?
Maybe even with hit zones and armour types?

C'mon, Blood Bowl is a fun boardgame! Lets keep it in a way that it can be played fast and without checking some rules every two minutes.

Really, it's a game.
Games are supposed to help you have some fun and a good time.
Don't take games that serious.

Elves are good at dodging and handling the ball?
Well, according to fantasy literature, they are also adept in magic, live in harmony with nature, shoot their bows incredibly accurate and have eyesight beyond humans belief.
So yes, I think AG4 is alright with them...

Well said, Regash.

[Wulfyn]

Would be nice if humans were somewhere between elves and orcs in terms of agility, rather than just, well, orcs. I guess that was the big win of block dice in 3rd, lots of granularity, but simple mechanic.

That's why, in the absence of Ag3.5, I'd suggest that human catchers needed an AG boost rather than an AV one. It would give them just that bit more AG to move the ball around more confidently, and the dodge chance benefit would still increase their survivability.

[rolo]

Would be nice if humans were somewhere between elves and orcs in terms of agility, rather than just, well, orcs. I guess that was the big win of block dice in 3rd, lots of granularity, but simple mechanic.

That's why, in the absence of Ag3.5, I'd suggest that human catchers needed an AG boost rather than an AV one. It would give them just that bit more AG to move the ball around more confidently, and the dodge chance benefit would still increase their survivability.

Or give them Diving Catch so they catch on a 2, but still need a 3 to dodge

[Regash]

That's why, in the absence of Ag3.5, I'd suggest that human catchers needed an AG boost rather than an AV one.

The problem ist that GW decided to use D6 for the rolls.
Any other stat is more like info, only AG is actually rolled on.
MA is just field count, ST is compared to to opposing ST and AV is the opponents number to beat.

Since they decided to use D6, the numbers of sensibel AG-Stats is very limited.
But make any human catcher as agile as any elf? Not to my taste, tbh.
And what about Amazon or Norse players? Aren't they "humans" too?
Why not boost them?

But just to make this clear: I do not oppose any changes to Blood Bowl.
Hell, I went through at least 3 Living Rulebooks.
I just oppose Caynides changing of rules because this will split our community in two.
Should GW change the LRB accordingly, I'm finde with the changes.
I just don't like the idea, some frenchies think they can do whatever they want and not even think about the resulting chaos with rules amongst players who may or may not play tabletop or the PC game.

[Digger Goreman]

If fluff is a good reason for game mechanics, then elves have left for the far realms and dwarves are no longer interested in this world....