Timed turns kicking my butt on FUMBBL

[Darkson]

I was going to say I think you're over-analysing your turns, but I think Smeborg's posted it in a much better way.

[mattgslater]

I just played a game with my "go-with-the-flow" rules. It led to a couple misclicks, but no biggie. I didn't get a sense for how well it would work, because the game was an absolute nuffling. My Orcs got back up to .500 (now I have no losing teams) and got some good stuff, because I flat-out mulched the Dwarfs I was facing. So I'm going to need to keep going to see if I can hold to it when things aren't going my way.

[DoubleSkulls]

If you are getting timed out, then you shouldn't worry about getting it perfect and focus on the "Nike" philosophy... just do it. A good plan not implemented is worse than a bad plan aggressively implemented.

[mattgslater]

I got timed out once in the last game, just after I finished my last action. He hit the end turn button just as I was about to hit it. Timeouts or no, I took too long early in the second half (2:30 for what should have been about 1:15), but the game didn't take too long because it was, well, brutal.

[Anglakhel]

I haven't played FUMBBL, but I'm notoriously slow in my leagues using Cyanides BB.

I think I have a similar problem of overanalyzing the pitch and my plan. Or I get several plans in mind and try and switch back and forth during my turn.

Somehow I still manage to do quite well, but I've had games where I literally blow 2 or 3 important turns by running out of time, even with 4m turns, and not getting my full plan executed.

[Corvidius]

Hi Matt, i managed to watch the last few turns of your game against the dwarves.

I was surprised at how much reorganising you were doing even though you had the match in the bag. You'd screened off the 2 trollslayers and the 2 linedwarves weren't even standing up at the los. From watching the game, it certainly looked like you were still overanalysing. Although saying that you did make a couple of quick passes for spps which obviously explains some of the thinking time.

I ended up playing against the Dwarves with my Ogres for the game after that and the coaches luck had definitely swung back around.

[SillySod]

@ Carnis: No, I don't go over every time, or half the time. I do take 2+min every turn, and that doesn't bug me so much. If you have a problem with an opponent playing slower-than-average it's your problem, while if you have a problem with an opponent playing too slow, it's his problem, you know? Even on FUMBBL, the rules are pretty clear: don't start a game if you can't commit 90 minutes. Perhaps it would be best to take less time... but one day at a time, you know?

There are a certain number of coaches on FUMBBL who expect turns to take 1-2 minutes, maybe three at the outside. Some of them can be pretty savagely rude if you take longer than this even though you arent timing out. Ignore them, they are bullies.

Try to discipline yourself to a three minute turn average - that way you arent likely to crumble on tricky turns. If you want to go faster than that then you can but there is no obligation to do so, not even a social obligation.

Good luck, I'll see if I can catch you around

[garion]

Just dont worry about it too much, it will come with practice.

[mattgslater]

Three games, one meaningful timeout.

[Smurf]

I've noticed the problem in real time board play. Excessive blockers go over time almost always. Nearly twice the time that is allowed, which the fast paced game of 4mins is not what it is about. I even relaxed the time to 5mins and still coaches had problems with this.

In the end I realised I couldn't legislate against all games and all coaches especially for the group who were IMO excessive blockers. I think they have quickened the pace a bit but the finesse teams tend to out pace them because there is an X Y Z forumula, rather than how do it achieve optimal blocking and leaving ball movement as a secondary activity.

[mattgslater]

I can see the fumbbl-hook taking hold of mattgslater soon enough, he needs to get some more losses under his belt which will drive him crazy and will drive him to play more to improve his record which will end up with him becoming another fumbbl-addict ;].

Goin' through that right now; except for one match against a very low-rated coach who's become sort of a penpal, I've mostly been playing up, and mostly been losing, for the last week or so. My baseline is more-or-less where I thought I'd be; the guys who've seen it all and learned from the best over the years, they usually beat me, though I frequently put up a good fight and sometimes pull it out. The guys who just play for fun, I tend to smack them around. Most of what I've learned isn't really strategic or tactical learning, but an improved awareness of the connection between the two.

I talk a lot in games. I never talk smack, but I moan about bad luck (only where it's legit, but it's still annoying, I know) and I talk about plays. In particular, I comment on my misclicks, because they seem still to be too frequent (and sometimes decisive), and bringing it up reminds me. This seems not to jive well with certain FUMBBL personalities. I get a lot of attendance, which seems to come in the form of a cadre of haters (all in good fun, or so I tell myself). That's okay, I'm a love-him-and/or-hate-him guy and always have been, so I'm used to it. Good fun.

I've definitely sped up. I'm still too slow, but I'm able to perceive improvement. I've figured out the best way to study replays in FUMBBL: skip from turn to turn rather than watching the whole thing at speed, backing up and playing at 1x or 2x speed when I see something I need to see again. I've been focusing on Orcs lately, especially Azure's and PurpleChest's Orcs. Their styles are quite different from one another, and it's interesting watching the two.

[garion]

Well its good to hear you have sped up and stopped missclicking so much. Now come play in the box. It is far more challanging and more fun IMO

[Bathoz]

Heh. One of my leagues on the Cyanide game is 2 minute. One is 4 minutes. Playing two league games back to back, with the 4 minuter first, cost me the first two or three turns of the next game one evening. But, on the whole, I prefer two minute turns.

Not only are games faster, it also rewards people who think faster on their feet.

Also, you comments remind me of someone I played in my first ever table top league. Rather unfairly, in hindsight, he was the only player timed. Granted, he was the only player who routinely broke the 4 minute barrier. He did win the league, though. So... there you go.

And frankly, 15 minute turns sound like torture to me. Pure, physical and mental, torture.

[Piousman]

Hey Bathoz, same here! I find the 4min league too long, but it DOES allow for proper chatting. Using a voice program does make the chatting a lot easier and faster.

- Piousman (aka Punk)

[soranos]

Matt - your plan should be largely formed during your opponent's turn, and completed within seconds of your turn starting (at most say 20-30 seconds). Your turn is for execution, not planning.

If you get hung up on a decision during your turn, it means you did not have the courage of your convictions (i.e. you are not following a plan). Minor decisions should be easy to take if you are guided by an overall plan.

So it seems like you have a planning problem. I see other coaches with this issue. Some of them are engineers by profession, they want to work out every step in the process before they start their turn. When something happens which they did not foresee, they waver, because their "plan" has been disrupted. (I don't like this approach for BB - I think you need a broad brush plan, not a detailed one.)

Is this the issue?

All the best

Some good points are being made here. Try not to plan out every possibility. You have to trust your instincts in BB.

I am not a particular fast player myself, but I conditioned myself to only take more than 4 min on tricky, crucial turns.

This is rather my personal perception, but in order to condition yourself you maybe should not be playing elves for a while. AG4 means, every player normally has more options at the beginning of the turn. Play something like Undead or even Lizzies and AG1,2 will often leave you no other choice than blocking or not blocking during the turn and you normally only have a handfull of mobile guys, who can pull of a big play in that turn.