Khemri and LRB 6

[Ulfast]

But one thing I don´t understand is what to use your big guys for if you don´t put them on the line? Because you can only do one blitz per turn and if none of your big guys is contesting another guy then they can´t block(or at least not 3 of them)?

[Carnis]

But one thing I don´t understand is what to use your big guys for if you don´t put them on the line? Because you can only do one blitz per turn and if none of your big guys is contesting another guy then they can´t block(or at least not 3 of them)?

They mean the line of scrimmage. You can mark players with them on turn1 an onward.. on your own terms. If you put them to LOS & they get KOd there's a risk they might get injured or fouled..

[Smurf]

It also means you have big hitters in your turn to whack their line.

Taking down 4 players max is the 'rule'. Note you should also prepare for the better results on the kick off table... Not just Perfect Defence, Quick Snap but the all important Blitz! Hence a TG to whack their LOS and a Blitz ra to go through.

If you lose a Skeleton, big deal.

But having TGs set back means they opponent has to try and get around them.

[mattgslater]

On offense: 3 TGs go to the LOS. On offense, the goal is to use 3-5 (6 if necessary) blocks to take down the D-line. I don't like making more TG blocks than is advantageous, and I recommend setting up to block with ST3 whenever ST5 won't get you an extra die. The ease of 2d/3d blocks and the lack of MB or Block means you have to get a lot of hits and a lot of knockdowns. You also have to keep your Blitz-Ras blocking non-Block players, over and over and over. You can mark blitzers with TGs; they don't care about ST3/Block, except inasmuch as they tempt bad-odds half-die hits and you have to give them a little support. Against high-ST teams, you may want to open with a TG at center blocking an end, and make your #3 block against the playside end with a Block or Wrestle Skel, because you're not getting 3d even with a TG on a BOB, but 2d with a Skel just means you've cleared out his buddies. Against all-ST3, use one TG to make the third block, on the end opposite the one the center hit, but make the first two blocks with ST3, because you need 2 assists to get 3d with a TG and you can only get one for free (barring some Guard). Then put some TGs on the side you're pushing to so you get 3d on your follow-up blocks (or use them for caging, hedging, and/or blitzing).

After you've creamed the LOS, you need to use one or two TGs to help digest what's left, but the other two or three TGs are the best hedgers out there. If you're able to cage near the line, two TGs can do double-duty. They don't have to roll dice to stand-and-blitz or stand and move back into square, like a Mummy does. They don't have Bonehead or Wild Animal. They're not Loners. They're only 2 slower than your vehicle, so if they start at the front and the action goes on, they can stay in position all the time. Best of all, against ST3, 1 assist isn't enough, so a TG fence is as good as a wall, as long as it's supported on both sides; your TGs can leave a space, and who cares if they give up one assist? But even zone support is enough, which is great news when most of your guys are MA5 and can't afford to dodge for that kind of stuff.

On defense: See above. There's no getting in for a ST3 team (well, I got scored on yesterday, but that was off a pitch invasion). Against bash, well, you can make them sweat, and maybe roll on anti-skills if the D-line eats too many blocks or you're playing a rook. Then, after T1, the four TGs at the backfield strong-points move into position.

It's highly unlikely that if you put a TG on the wing he'll get any immediate action. His job is to move in and block off the opponent from his side of the field. The guy on the off-side can usually just waltz in as far as he needs to, up to the 2-column, and mark some guy, maybe with some support to prohibit a 1d. The guy on the strong side probably knows where he has to go (or you know when the time comes). The strong midfielder probably gets hit, and the weak midfielder is in close, even if he's not marked. It's ok that you're taking the first hit, but you want it to be the hit of your choice, thanks. Just any ol' schmoe can't go around blocking TGs.

[mattgslater]

Oh, and I wasn't prepared for how awesome TGs are. Having ST5 without Loner, and not having to roll dice to act or having anti-skills telling me I should try to engineer blocks or hold off, or follow/not follow, is a big deal. Also, Decay isn't a huge deal, 'cause he's AV9 and Regen. Regen is more good than Decay is bad. If you don't get hung up on comparing him to a Mummy, compare the TG to a BOB. The TG costs 20k more, gets +1 ST and the net value of Regen/AV9, and the BOB gets +1 AG (just better than useless!) and G access (okay, that's pretty good, but 3 of the top 4 blocker skills are S).

[SillySod]

I'd much rather have a roster with BoBs than tomb guardians... and BoBs are pretty weak without skills.

[mattgslater]

I'd much rather have a roster with BoBs than tomb guardians...

Care to explain? Is the 20k a killer? Is it the lack of G skills? Is it AG1? Do you think ST5 is not much better than 4? It seems to me that 20k price and the lack of G skills is not major on a player who wants Guard, SF and MB, at least not compared to +1 ST. I also don't think +AG is worth as much as Regen/Decay.

For every Regen/Decay cas you take, you'll get:
1/2 * Reserves
1/8 * Badly Hurt
< 1/10 * MNG (7/72)
1/8 * Char loss (or two)
< 1/6 * Dead (11/72)

For every non-Regen, non-Decay cas you take, you'll get:
No Apoth: 1/2 BH; 1/6 MNG; 1/6 Char Loss; 1/6 Dead.
Apoth on Dead: 1/12 Reserves; 1/2 BH; 7/36 MNG; 7/36 Char Loss; 1/36 Dead.
Apoth on Char Loss: 1/6 Reserves; 1/2 BH; 2/9 MNG; 1/12 Char Loss; 1/36 Dead.
Apoth on BH: 3/4 Reserves; 5/36 MNG; 1/12 Char Loss; 1/36 Dead.

Or are you saying that the roster that includes BOBs (Orcs) is better than the roster that includes TGs (Khemri)? That's hard to disagree with. But that's not the TGs' fault. Better throwers for the same price, more/better/cheaper blitzers, dramatically better linemen, a stunty option, a Troll, an Apoth, and 10k TRR value on one side, and, uh, nothing on the other! Oh, wait, a Skel costs 10k less than the Orc. He's still an inferior value, but he's a little cheaper. The TG is the only thing that makes Khemri even remotely competitive.

[Ulfast]

Yes, without our TG´s then khemri would be nothing. And we have it pretty hard allready to get it working as it is But I never back downa challenge when I see one.

Thanks Mattgslater for your tip about LOS and where to put everyone. I will indeed try it out.

as I´m asking a lot here I´m thinking to contuie. What is hardest to meet for khemri, is it another basher team( like dwarfs or orcs that can do it better then us) or is it a agility team (like elfs in all forms?)

[Smurf]

The elves will be the hardest.

You will get a few turns each drive as the AG4s power past you and score and score and score.

Unless they are idiots and start hitting.

Attrition is hard, setting up deep will allow for attrition.

The teams with similar armour: the other undeads, humans, norse, amazon and even orcs you can get stuck in and try and win the blocking game.

Other badass blocking teams will punish you: Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves, Chaos and a good Orc team.

Then you have the mixed bag, this depends on the coach's ability.

That's why in early games the S takers need quite a bit of mighty blow to help them build up and damage the opponents. Then the question is how? When I was playing Chaos I used to give touch backs to my Minotaur... easy way to rack up some pts for the player. So when touch backs happen maybe give the ball to a TG and guard the player as it makes its casual stroll to the TZ.

Another is to get about 14 players on the team and rack up the rerolls to about the tune of 4. Hopefully you can get inducements and choose those nice Star Players to play for you

[mattgslater]

AG4 is extremely frustrating to play against when you don't trust your ball skills. You just have to make it as hard as you can and hope for the best. Khemri can't afford to go down men vs. elves, but they can make it flat-out impossible for Elves to open holes and force them to make a lot of 2+/3+ rolls. Early-on, the key is to target the Dodge players so you can run looser formations to force multiple 3+ rolls on cracking attempts. Later, your MB and your opponent's dodges mean that y'all are playing an odds game. You need to make almost all of a few moderate rolls (pickups, the occasional handoff w/TRR) and a bunch of very easy rolls (2d/3d blocks), plus rely on making a few of several very hard rolls (cas), while your opponent needs to make almost all of a bunch of rolls which are on the whole easy (dodges, 1d/2d blocks) and maybe a couple harder rolls (1/2d blocks, 4+ dodges, unskilled 3+ rolls without TRRs).

But yours has to work continuously until you score, which against elves will usually be 5-8 turns at a go, while theirs only has to work for one or two turns, twice in the match. The elves can put the game out of your reach in the first half. All you can do to the elves is raise their bar by dropping their numbers and building a 1-TD lead. They can do that to you, too, you know. I mean, sure, the Khemri hit harder, but not that much harder, TBH, and the elves can play with 9 men. Khemri with 9 men are not happy. Even with all the positionals, they don't have enough support!

[Ulfast]

It always seems that khemri is missing something, eather a skill or stat. But hopefull we can get that and as you all point out, we need to keep control of the game and don´t let chance get in the way. Second is as mattgslater pointed out together with others to keep a deep defence. Most teams don´t seems to use that as much but we do.

I also thought from the start that AG4 would be hardest but at the same time a team like dwarfs really puts fear in my pants. Hopefull we will not have one in our league next season but you never know.

[mattgslater]

Dwarfs aren't too bad, so long as you can win the matchup game: their lack of ST more-or-less cancels their universal Block against heavy teams, if you can keep the Slayers marked/prone/out. Not having much Block means you take more damage, but it doesn't help them avoid taking damage. So just make it hard to get two assists on the TGs, and keep the Slayers off the TGs (or trap the TGs up to discourage Frenzy hits), and you should have a fair fight.

Orcs may be a better team than Khemri, but I've found that my Orcs have a hard time against Khemri, as the Khemri are better than Orcs at what the Orcs do best, even if their all-round deficiencies more than make up for it.

[Ulfast]

One thing that I have been thinking the last couple of days after we have been discuss tactic and LOS is what role is our Blitz-Ras going to fill? Because it´s easy to see our skeletons as canonfodder and perhaps support to our TG, our TG is of course our bashers and our Thro-Ras is our ballcarriers. So what is the main role for Blitz-Ras and what to do with them (like skills etc)?

[The Painted Goblin]

Use their superior pace

One of only four players that have MV6 makes them as speedy a player as Khemri will get. Mobile guard.

[mattgslater]

Everything The Painted Goblin said.

Early-on, use them to hit non-Block guys. I like fielding Blitz-Ras as safeties, so they can make the best possible blitz. On offense, I like to open with Blitz-Ra blocks against ST3 teams, and use them to blitz vs. heavy teams. Other teams often like using Block players to man strongpoints and to mark blitzers, but you don't need them for that; TGs are a million times better at this role.