Secret Weapon Rules - a basic proposal

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Joemanji
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Secret Weapon Rules - a basic proposal

Post by Joemanji »

Under these rules, teams may now purchase Secret Weapons for their players. It takes a special kind of player to use and maintain a weapon correctly. A weapon must be purchased at the same time as the player who is to use it. They may not be bought for one of your existing players. Unless stated otherwise, weapons may only be used by a team's designated lineman position. Each weapon has a cost in gold crowns. This cost should be added to the value of the player who is to use it, for the purposes of Team Rating. Once purchased, a Secret Weapon may not be removed from a player for any reason.

Example ~ You purchase a 40,000 gc chainsaw and a lineman to use it for your Human team. The lineman's cost should be recorded as 90,000 gc on your roster sheet.

A weapon may only be used by the player who it is purchased for. If a player who has a weapon is removed from the roster for any reason, then the weapon is also removed from the roster. They can not be exchanged between players.

Most teams are only allowed one player with a Secret Weapon on the roster at any one time. Some teams are more desperate or cunning than others however, and may have more. Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf and Skaven teams may have up to two weapons on their roster, whilst Goblins may have up to three. Note that if your league allows a Goblin team to roll for a free Secret Weapon before each game, then they may use this weapon in addition to their normal allowance of three.

Players with a Secret Weapon weapon become very attached to them, for obvious reasons. A player may never take the field without his weapon.

Players do not earn SPPs for casualties inflicted using a Secret Weapon (is this already part of the official rules? I can't remember).

Code: Select all

WEAPON               COST    RACES
Ball and Chain*      20,000  Goblin, Skaven
Blunderbuss          30,000  Chaos Dwarf, Dwarf
Bombs                40,000  Chaos Dwarf, Dwarf, Goblin
Chainsaw             40,000  Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, Dwarf, Goblin, Human, Khemri, 
                              Necromantic, Norse, Orc, Rotters
Exploding Boomerang  20,000  Amazon, Chaos Dwarf, Dwarf, Goblin, Lizardmen
Doom Diver Wings     10,000  Goblin
Gyro-pack            20,000  Dwarf
Pogo Stick           20,000  Goblin
Poisoned Dagger      10,000  Amazon, Chaos Dwarf, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven
Stink Bombs          20,000  Goblin
[Note : Costs are based on those associated with the secret weapon star players. This seemed the fair and obvious way to do it.]

*A player with a Ball and Chain always has MV 4, and loses all Skills, Traits and Racial Characteristics.

Chaos Dwarfs are an exception to the normal rules, in that only their Chaos Dwarf Blockers may use Secret Weapons, apart from the Poisoned Dagger which may only be used by Hodgoblins.

EXPLODING BOOMERANG Penalty Roll: 9+
A coach may choose to have a player throw his bomberang instead of taking any other action. A player is not allowed to move when he throws a bomberang. The boomerang is thrown using the rules for passing the football. Throwing a boomerang is quite difficult, so there is additional -1 penalty to the dice roll. Because of the way they are thrown, a boomerang may not be aimed at any square within Quick Pass range. No player, from either team, will attempt to intercept a boomerang.

If a thrown boomerang is fumbled, nothing happens. If a thrown boomerang would land in an empty square, then it flies back to the player who threw it. He must immediately attempt to catch the boomerang, as if it were a bouncing ball. If he succeeds, the boomerang throw action ends. If he fails, then the boomerang hits him and explodes!! Place the player prone and make an Armour roll.

If a thrown boomerang would land in an occupied square, then the player in that square must attempt to catch it, as described above.

DOOM DIVER WINGS Penalty Roll: 10+
Doom Diver wings are very restrictive; any Goblin equipped with them loses his Dodge skill. If a player with doom diver wings is thrown using the Throw Team-Mate rules, then the player throwing him counts as having the Strong Arm trait. In addition, the thrown player may be aimed at any square within range, even if it is occupied. Normally a player thrown using Throw Team-Mate may only be aimed at an empty square.

GYRO-PACK Penalty Roll: 10+
Using a miniaturised version of their Gyrocopter technology, the Gyro-Pack is not powerful enough to allow its wearer to gly in the quite the same way. Rather, he can use the Gyro-Pack to make massive leaps into the air, before returning to the ground almost immediately. The device is pretty unreliable however, and takes quite a bit of persuading for it to actually work!

A coach may attempt to trigger the Gyro-Pack before taking a normal action with a player. Declare the action as normal, and then make an unmodified Agility roll for the player. If the roll is failed, the Gyro-Pack lifts the player a few feet off the ground, before dropping him uncerimniously back to earth. The player's action is wasted as he struggles to control the misfiring device; he may not do anything else this turn.

If the Agility roll is successful, then the coach should place the throw-in template over the player's head. Roll a D6 to see which direction the player flies off in. Then roll another D6 to see how many squares he travels. In order to land, the player must make a landing roll, in the same way as a player who had been thrown using the Throw Team-Mate rules. Because the Gyro-Pack has built in stabilisers, the +1 bonus to this roll for an accurate throw will always apply. If the player lands successfully, then he may continue with his declared action as normal. If the player lands off the pitch, he will be beaten up by the crowd using the normal rules. Landing in the crowd does not cause a turnover. Flying over the endzone and into the crowd does not count as a touchdown.

STINK BOMBS Penalty Roll: 10+
The rules for the stink bomb are exactly the same as the rules for a normal bomb, with the following exception. Players in the square where the stink bomb ends up and all adjacent squares fallover coughing and choking. Lie them face up on the field but do not make an Armour roll for them. Players falling over in this way do not cause a turnover unless one of the players was holding the ball, in which case they drop it and it scatters one square.

[Note : These new Secret Weapons are by no means the finished article, and have not been playtested, apart from the Stink Bombs. Their costs in particular are open for much debate. They have been included to show the sort of things that can be added, as much as anything.]

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Joemanji
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Post by Joemanji »

Somewhere to start from....


For the record, I don't like the idea of new Secret Weapon "skills", or anything that makes using them more reliable. I don't think this is the right may to go. Just IMO. :)

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Post by Bookman »

I see a lot of concern from people about players being able to combine SW and other skills or stat increases, and arguing for peaking such players. Does anyone think that removing the eligibility for SW players to be awarded an MVP is a good compromise? It fits the fluff...

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Post by Blammaham »

I think that Players armed with secret weapons shouln't be able to field the foot ball in most cases and probably infact should be peaked as they tend to get all wraped up in their secret weapon as opposed to concentraiting on the game or improving their skills a regular player does, and along these lines I would like to see them have restricted reroll use much like the big guys.

@Nazgit: I like what you have done with these rules and the new SW in there they seem fun. I don't have a problem with the cost of the secret weapons however I think it would help ballance the rules out if there was some sort of game to game expence associated with the weapon itself. Even if this is a small amout it might help keeping 300+ rated teams from always having a secret weapon available.S.

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Post by grotemuis »

on first note (gonna think more later):

i don't like the idea of dwarfs, CD and skaven having more than one-> maybe change to. these races have acces to more SW and they have secret weapon specialist. This means one player who can use more than one SW (like an arsenal). He can choose per match which weapon he wants to use.

boomerang: maybe change return to scatter from original square (occupied by thrower).

doom diver: maybe change to one less scatter on inaccurate throw and +1 to land.

for the rest your thinking in about the same lines as me. But it needs more work.

thank you for the kick start

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Post by Joemanji »

Blammaham wrote:I think that Players armed with secret weapons shouln't be able to field the football in most cases ...
What about pogo sticks? I think there is a built in reason for coaches not to give their SW players the ball. There are more useful things to do with a SW player than have him as your ball carrier. It goes completely against the point of a SW. It is too much of a risk. You can't attack opposing players with your weapon if you have to protect the player from counter attacks. What if your poison dagger or chainsaw attack fails? You are suddenly left with your ball carrier stood next to an opposing player, ready to block him next turn. Or you can dodge away, which is a long term recipe for disaster.
Blammaham wrote:... and probably infact should be peaked as they tend to get all wraped up in their secret weapon as opposed to concentraiting on the game or improving their skills a regular player does ...
What advances are people so afraid of SW users getting? Remember that they are limited, with some exceptions, to taking only General skills. +1 AG on would be good with some weapons (e.g. Chainsaw), but it isn't unbalanced. It isn't a game breaker. :)

I'm not feeling it. Can someone help me out with some specific examples? :)
Blammaham wrote:... and along these lines I would like to see them have restricted reroll use much like the big guys.
That is worth looking into. IMO, SW do not have the same impact as a ST 5 player. They are unreliable and often ineffective. I think the fact that they can suck up your rerolls is an important factor. Perhaps allowing them to use rerolls is actually a negative, rather than a positive. Something to think on. :wink:
Blammaham wrote:I think it would help balance the rules out if there was some sort of game to game expence associated with the weapon itself. Even if this is a small amout it might help keeping 300+ rated teams from always having a secret weapon available.S.
I think the current winnings table does this, in a way. Once the SW player dies, and he is a big target, he will be very difficult to replace. Again, something to look into, but something that I personally don't like the feel of. Even a small fee will rise to huge levels over time, and you'll end up paying the player's cost 5 or 6 times over.

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Post by Joemanji »

grotemuis wrote:i don't like the idea of dwarfs, CD and skaven having more than one ...
It's a fluff thing. Dwarf, CD and Skaven are the teams mentioned in the background as using a lot of SW. This is clearly open to a lot of debate from a "game balance" POV.
grotemuis wrote:... maybe change to. these races have acces to more SW and they have secret weapon specialist. This means one player who can use more than one SW (like an arsenal). He can choose per match which weapon he wants to use.
Sounds quite a bit more complicated. I think players should get what they pay for, and no more or less.
grotemuis wrote:boomerang: maybe change return to scatter from original square (occupied by thrower).
Makes it kind of similar to a bomb, don't you think? The whole point of a boomerang is that it returns to the person who throws it. No point calling it a boomerang if it don't come back! :lol: <sings> "My boomerang won't come back" </sings> :wink:
grotemuis wrote:doom diver: maybe change to one less scatter on inaccurate throw and +1 to land.
Can you explain your thinking behind this one? :-? The whole point of Doom Divers is that they are used as living weapons. Check the WFB fluff. They should cause damage to the opposing team, not vastly increase the potency of your TTM game. :)

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Re: Secret Weapon Rules - a basic proposal

Post by Sixpack595 »

Nazgit wrote:*A player with a Ball and Chain always has MV 4, and loses all Skills, Traits and Racial Characteristics.
I'd lose this bit (or at least the racial part) since Stuntys already lose the special dodge ability from carying the special weapon. It makes sence that they can't dodge, by why are they now less likely to be injured?

I'd also drop the Boomerang, stink bombs and Gyro pack. I think there is a good variety already, and these are filling a role already taken by an existing SW. To be honest I dislike all the added weapons, but modeling a Gobbo with DoomDiver wings is just too cool. :lol:

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Re: Secret Weapon Rules - a basic proposal

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Sixpack595 wrote:I'd lose this bit (or at least the racial part) since Stuntys already lose the special dodge ability from carying the special weapon. It makes sence that they can't dodge, by why are they now less likely to be injured?
If you don't take Right Stuff away, someone will try to throw a fanatic. :roll: Plus, skaven can have a ball and chain in the above rules (Plague Censer Bearers). If you say what you mean from the start, you can cut out problems that you didn't forsee, or that don't even exist yet.

Somehow, I knew you of all people would disapprove of any new ideas Sixpack, :lol: :wink: Oh well, IMO there isn't enough variety. We'll have to agree to disagree. :)

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Re: Secret Weapon Rules - a basic proposal

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Nazgit wrote: STINK BOMBS Penalty Roll: 10+
The rules for the stink bomb are exactly the same as the rules for a normal bomb, with the following exception. Players in the square where the stink bomb ends up and all adjacent squares fallover coughing and choking. Lie them face up on the field but do not make an Armour roll for them. Players falling over in this way do not cause a turnover unless one of the players was holding the ball, in which case they drop it and it scatters one square.
In my experience, Stink Bombs are way too powerful in the wrong hands. The lack of real risk inolved , both from the high Penalty Roll and the low probability of a turnover caused by them, leaves a lot of room for abuse. If they were to be included, they should only be for Goblin Teams (and if they are ever made official, Snotlings :) )

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Re: Secret Weapon Rules - a basic proposal

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darthnoir wrote:In my experience, Stink Bombs are way too powerful in the wrong hands. The lack of real risk inolved , both from the high Penalty Roll and the low probability of a turnover caused by them, leaves a lot of room for abuse. If they were to be included, they should only be for Goblin Teams (and if they are ever made official, Snotlings :) )
Do you think that players in adjacent squares should only fall over on a 4+, in a similar way to normal bombs?

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Re: Secret Weapon Rules - a basic proposal

Post by darthnoir »

Nazgit wrote:
darthnoir wrote:In my experience, Stink Bombs are way too powerful in the wrong hands. The lack of real risk inolved , both from the high Penalty Roll and the low probability of a turnover caused by them, leaves a lot of room for abuse. If they were to be included, they should only be for Goblin Teams (and if they are ever made official, Snotlings :) )
Do you think that players in adjacent squares should only fall over on a 4+, in a similar way to normal bombs?
My gut reaction is no. The appeal of stink bombs over normal bombs is the fact they are more effective yet less damaging.

Limiting them to Goblin (and Snotling :D ) teams reigns in their effectiveness due to stunty passing range limitations. Also, Goblins being less sturdy players means if you can get at the annoying little bomber, you'll most likely be able to injure him off the pitch.

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Post by sean newboy »

The dwarf/chaos dwarf weapons are still virtually useless due to the ag of the players carrying them. A commisioner would have to pay me to get me to use them.

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Post by Joemanji »

Well, the fluff never mentions them being any good at using them weapons! :lol: Remember the CD team that wiped out it's own fanbase and had to disband? :P

Are you suggesting any changes? I'll give you hand - some people have said that you should be able to start a chainsaw on a flat 4+, regardless of AG.

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Post by sean newboy »

All non ranged items (i.e. not bombs and boomerangs and such) use a str8 4+ roll.

Blunderbuss users get surehands.

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