Jump up and apothecaries

Ahmrik · Post by **Ahmrik** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:35 pm

Hi everyone, just wondering if anyone has used an Apothecary on a stunned player that has jump up? for example to run into endzone/block ball carrier in the last turn. Also is this frowned upon?

I see it as a valid tactic with Norse Berzerkers that get knocked down by a Cage.

-Ahmrik-

mepmuff · Post by **mepmuff** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:39 pm

I always take an apo for tournies, just to have that tactical option. If it's frowned upon, it's probably by Nuffle. Expect at least two experienced players to die if you do this

Btw, I abolutely fail to see what Jump Up has to do with this.

Ahmrik · Post by **Ahmrik** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:42 pm

Btw, I abolutely fail to see what Jump Up has to do with this

Extra movement, don't have to declare blitz if they are in square next to you.

-Ahmrik-

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:49 pm

i'd wager a guess he knows what the skill does...his point is that the question is exactly the same as "would you take an apoth to a tourney and use it on a stunned player for tactical purposes?" Whether the player has jump up or not may affect how often it would be tactically advisable, but in no way affects the core question.

Ahmrik · Post by **Ahmrik** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:53 pm

Fair point. Just digging for more ways of using my Norse thats why i mentioned it.

-Ahmrik-

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:00 pm

my personal answer to the question is no. i don't take apoths to tourneys, i'd rather field the best 11 players i can and win or lose with them. i brought rats to my last tourney with the following roster.

2 thr
2 sv
4gr
2 line
1 ro
2rr
1ff

i could have added an apoth or a 12th rat, like a lot of other people did, but then i would most likely have had to go without the rat ogre or something.

ymmv, that's what works for me.

Ahmrik · Post by **Ahmrik** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:09 pm

My Norse one off game team is:

3x Berzerkers
1x Ogre
1x Throwers
2x Catchers
5x Linemen
2x Re-roll
3x Fan Factor

Just wondered about dropping one Lineman and putting Apothecary in.

-Ahmrik-

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:10 pm

With AV 7, I would!

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:04 am

he's already got 12 players. in a format when you reset after every game, you don't really need 12 players AND an apoth, that's 10tr that's not being used.

so certainly not both imo, but that's not what you were asking anyway. i would think that an apoth would be more valuable than an extra lineman in most cases, but that's a judgement call.

it's conceiveable that an important position player would get hurt early in the game, or at a critical time late in the game; in that scenario the apoth would be superior.

it's also conceivable that you have no major injuries to position players, but have 3 ko's to random schmoes as the game goes on. in that case a bench would be preferrable, because what you really need in that case are as many warm bodies as you can find.

which scenario do you think is more likely? which are you most afraid of?

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:14 am

It's also possible one of your players gets sent off or pushed into the crowd (although usually it's the norse shoving people into the crowd). In such cases a 12th player is also better.

TuernRedvenom · Post by **TuernRedvenom** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:25 am

Apoth is better then a reserve because it keeps your players on the pitch and as such makes it harder for your opponent to get a casualty cascade going. Most teams that play for casualty cascades also play 8-turn drives so it'll take a long time before you can get those reserves on the pitch, by which time it could already be too late.
And reserves are usually linemen while an apoth can keep a blitzer on the pitch which is way more important for the team.

Craigtw · Post by **Craigtw** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:56 pm

wesleytj wrote:he's already got 12 players. in a format when you reset after every game, you don't really need 12 players AND an apoth, that's 10tr that's not being used.

But he would not have 12 players, he was talking about converting one of the linemen into an apothecary.

Agreeing with the other statements made about what apothecaries can do, I would again say yes, go with the apothecary instead of the extra lineman.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:43 am

wesleytj wrote:he's already got 12 players. in a format when you reset after every game, you don't really need 12 players AND an apoth, that's 10tr that's not being used.

But only for the 1st drive...

My 'zon team is normally 12 players and an apoth and I'll rarely finish the game without using both. If I do, it probably means I won anyway.

Having 11 to start the 2nd half is a huge advantage against many teams.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:46 pm

there IS an advantage to starting with 12 players and an apoth, no question.

where the debate lies is whether that advantage is greater than, less than, or equal to the advantage granted by having BETTER players. The answer of course, depends on the race, likely opponents, and to a lesser degree, the coach.

For example, the skaven team I brought to the last tourney (see above) maxxed out all of its position players. No other skaven team at the tourney was able to field 4 gutter runners, 2 storm vermin, 2 throwers, AND a rat ogre. It worked GREAT against pro elves, amazons, and wood elves, my first 3 opponents. The 4 GR were everywhere, and having 2 throwers meant I didn't have to play any too far back to get the ball.

For an orc team, where you're mostly av9 anyway, having a bench and/or apoth is a total waste, as least for my money. Id much rather field a bigger, badder starting 11, since most of them are likely to stick around for the whole game.