A couple of questions on 'Zon team building

[thechosengobbo]

Hey guys.

I'm finishing a league soon, and think it might be time to change from gobbos for something a little more competitive (for once). I decided on Amazons, as I need practice painting skin.

Now having never played the team before (though having a little experience with elves) I obviously have a couple of questions. So I thought I'd come to the fine tacticians over here for a little nugde in the right direction.

1) How many catchers would you think the Amazons should start with? 2 seems ok to me, but I just wanted a little more imput.

2) I realise Amazons should play the agile cage game. So for now only one thrower (easier to skill up to sure hands quickly). When would you buy the 2nd? As the teams first purchase? Or as the last player in a 14 woman line up? Or would you stick with one and wait for her to die before replacement?

3) Speaking of a 14 woman lineup, would you go higher than that due to low armour? Or would you keep them at that and simply stockpile cash to replace dead women?

4) Assuming I go with only one thrower on the starting lineup for now, would kick off return be a viable skill? (after sure hands, obviously).

Before anyone asks, my planned starting team looks like this (tv100):

4x blitzers
1x thrower
2x catchers
5x lino
3x re-rolls (I assume I won't need more than this)
30k saved for an apoth (or to replace the lino that ALWAYS dies in my first game with any league team)

I plan on taking guard on the blitzers ASAP, as well as block on as many linos as possible (and the catchers). Then throw in some diving tackle and some side step (read: a LOT of side step) for good measure.

Any advice is appreciated.

[DoubleSkulls]

1) zero. Catchers are 20k more for a reroll you won't use much - and you really really want to skill the blitzers up early. So having SPP hogs like catchers isn't great.

2) Buy the 2nd thrower first (after team creation & apoth) then catchers.

3) 14 should be okay until you run into lots of tackle/mighty blow

4) It should, I haven't tried it yet.

Drop the catchers and take an extra reroll.

[whitetiger]

I think I'd take the extra reroll as well. Catchers will skill up fairly quickly once you get them on the team. I'd use the first couple of games to get the blitzers and linos a few skills. Buy the Apo first, then the second thrower, then the 2 catchers.

Get some guard on a couple of the blitzers, then Mighty BLow, Tackle, Strip Ball.

Definately get block on some of the linos, get one with kick, then turn at least one into a mad woman and give her block and frenzy. You'll be amazed what that'll do for you.

[PubBowler]

Catchers are 20k more for a reroll you won't use much - and you really really want to skill the blitzers up early. So having SPP hogs like catchers isn't great.

Catchers also give Agility access on normal roles.
Which, to me anyway, is a route to Side Step & Diving Tackle players.

Two of those are well worth having.

I'd start with both, still aiming to score with the Blitzers when receiving until they all have Guard.

I'm not sure of how much use throwers are as you don't need Leader (cheap rerolls & players).
Well, maybe one with HMP for defensive plays.
Or am I missing something?

[rodders]

try to avoid blodging up all of your lino's its very tempting to do but you will need some of those "utility" skills at a higher tr

[SillySod]

This is the way I'd take zons....

4 Blitzers - 360k
7 Linewomen - 350k
1 Thrower - 70k
4 Re-rolls - 200k
FF 2 - 20k

This gives you a nice solid lineup to start with, zons are at their most powerful at lower TRs so starting with a lower TR you should be able to get some really solid wins (especially spending money on players rather than FF) which should push your FF up plenty.

The blitzers should get block/MB/tackle/stripball depending on preferences though I'd strongly emphasise the need for guard. The thrower is just there because someone has to pick the ball up and pass is handy to allow you to spread the threat of who you intend to score with, I'd get surehands, block, accurate in no particular order because this gives you a relatively reliable ball delivery service to the blitzers and linewomen. Linewomen should get block and a spread of utility skills. Personally I'd give them all block first and then give the first ones to reach their second skill a utility skill (such as kick). This avoids the problem where the ones which got the utility skills first develope slower and dont get block while the ones that got block develope quicker but now have less useful options from the utility skills.

[Aliboon]

The blitzers should get block/MB/tackle/stripball

I take it that is a typo Guard should really be the first skill choice as SS said. Side-step would be my first choice on doubles. Blodging, guarding side-steppers are just nasty.

Linos, guard on doubles-for a "bashy" team, 'zons are weak, they need all the guard they can get. Dauntless is also a good call for some of your linos, though preferably once they already have block.

Otherwise, your throwing game should be plan "B"-it's always good to have a receiver or two downfield so that the opo has to spread his defence and allow your caged girls to break through, or risk being scored against that turn.

I've never gone the HMP route, but it could be a desperation play option with a couple of DC catchers, but I think i'd rather have my catchers as blodging, D Tackling side-steppers.

KO Return would be a good skill as 'zons aren't fast. You want to get the ball secured early, so either KO return, or a quick (poss short with accurate) to a catcher, who can then run into the cage.

I'm not sure if you want more than 14 players, given AV7, 'zons will leave the pitch, but if your league goes on long enough, then it is likely you'll want those spots free for Stars (Bertha is good) as even a fully developed 'zon team won't have as high a TV as a lot of other teams.

[PubBowler]

I've never gone the HMP route, but it could be a desperation play option with a couple of DC catchers, but I think i'd rather have my catchers as blodging, D Tackling side-steppers.

My suggestion re: HMP is for the when you steal the ball of your opponent and just want to clear your lines.
A HMP (no need to get clear of tackle zones) to put it deep in the other half can be very handy.

Not sure it's a reason to have a Catcher but that is what I was mussing about.

[Aliboon]

My suggestion re: HMP is for the when you steal the ball of your opponent and just want to clear your lines.
A HMP (no need to get clear of tackle zones) to put it deep in the other half can be very handy.

I see, that could work given the right situation, but although range doesn't effect HMP, I thought TZs did?

[PubBowler]

My suggestion re: HMP is for the when you steal the ball of your opponent and just want to clear your lines.
A HMP (no need to get clear of tackle zones) to put it deep in the other half can be very handy.

I see, that could work given the right situation, but although range doesn't effect HMP, I thought TZs did?

Nope, always 2+ (and you can reroll with Pass).

[thechosengobbo]

Heh, forgot to say I'm playing LRB5 in the first post

PubBowler: In answer to your first comment on taking throwers; I'm taking one just to get sure hands,wWhich is a skill I've found almost essential for an AG3 team to save the re-rolls for blocking. Block and then HMP would be my next skill choices, for survivability and line clearance. Possibly KoR, but I'm not too sure yet (possibly on the reserve thrower...)

I'd already worked out that HMP thing (use it with my orcs from time to time, just to clear space and let all the tackle I had do some work). It's going to be very useful for me, especially if I can have a player in the backfield to scoop up the ball before the opponent gets to it.

As for leader, it's a skill I only take with dwarfs and orcs (out of the few teams I play) as I hate the idea of losing the player before using the skill. With my new teams armour 7, I'm just not trusting my throwers survivability. Especially given the amount of fouling in my current league.


I'm now taking SillySods suggested list, without the FF (never buy the stuff). going to save for an apothecary, then the reserve thrower.

As for my team size, I guess my league will be able to answer that question for me when they start clearing me off the pitch

Rodders: Thank you. I was thinking of taking about a third/half of my linos with block first, and the rest getting utility skills first (giving guard on doubles). Basically giving every other lino that skills up block. I wasn't too sure on the viability but forgot to ask. You cleared that up for me


Thank you very much for all your advice guys. It looks like the way I wanted to take my Amazon team is (mostly) viable

[PubBowler]

PubBowler: In answer to your first comment on taking throwers; I'm taking one just to get sure hands, Which is a skill I've found almost essential for an AG3 team to save the re-rolls for blocking.

The Amazon thrower doesn't start with Sure Hands and everyone on the team can have it.

I would be taking Sure Hands on a couple of Linos for when you need to use it (lurking Strip Ballers) and not taking the Thrower (unless you're planning on HMP or Leader).

But this is TheoryBowl

[stashman]

Cathers can be a very good player becuse of Agility skills: Side Step, Jump-Up, Diving tackle, Sneaky Git.

You don't have to use catchers as "catchers"

[thechosengobbo]

Pubbowler: Really? I keep thinking of sure hands as a P skill, My bad I guess...

I DID realise they didn't come with it though (so I'm not THAT bad).

Means I'll be going through a more interesting thrower development, if I get it on two linos instead. As I said before, no leader (players are two weak, and leaders seem to be anyones first target for some silly reason).

HMP, KoR to start with, and move from there. The nice thing about KoR is it allows me to set up more players forwards, then with HMP I can clear the ball upfield once the other team has run in (more likely not to though, but it'll be a fun trick to do now and again).

Not going to plan a 3rd or 4th skill, as I don't expect an AV7 player (more specifically, an ANNOYING AV7 player) to last that long. But it'd be fun to add block, or sure hands to go with my KoR HMP plan.

Stashman: I'm well aware that my catchers don't need to play the catching game. I plan on taking Diving tackle, Side step, Jump up and block (possibly in a slightly different order). It's just that with catch they can hog SPPs, so they don't get to join the starting lineup.


How do people feel about Kick on a lino? It seems a little redundant to me, as given my teams speed it could be hard to capitalise. Am I wrong in my assumption?

[darren woodward]

Advice i was given by someone in the know was to pick up with a Blitzer & never let go until you score. Works for me

Still - play them how you like & have fun with it. d