Speeding up development of ST4 Blocker-types - Block or MB?

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am

Hi folks,

I'd like to hear your ideas on the following:

ST4 Blockers (esp. with AG<3, e.g. Sauri, Black Orcs, Nurgle warriors) are SLOW to develop as they mostly have to rely on CAS and MVPs to skill up.

So, if one was intending to look for a first skill to maximise the speed of future development by increasing the "CAS-rate", would that be Block or Mighty Blow? Does anyone have hands-on experience or some clever statistics?

I'm well aware that Block is the safer route as it prevents turnovers and gives a greater chance of winning over taking MB, but if you look really long term, which route will get you the 2nd skill faster?

Cheers

Tante Käthe

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:58 am

I'd probably say Block.

Big Guys tend to skill up slowly as well, and they start with S5 and Mighty Blow. This is partially down to negatraits, making them unreliable, but even then they tend to skill slowly.

Block also means it's less likely that you get your players killed. Which speeds up development considerably.

~Andromidius

Ullis · Post by **Ullis** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:57 pm

This is only considering maximising the SPP's of a single ST4 player through blocking:

Definitely Mighty Blow. With MB the chances of getting a CAS go up. Even if you roll a Both Down -result, many times your opponent won't even have Block. The difference is crucial. The chances of getting a CAS against different armors are (after downing the opponent):

AV9: 6,5% compared to 2,8% with no MB
AV8: 10,0% compared to 4,6%
AV7: 14,4% compared to 6,9%

MB gives you over double the chances of getting a CAS! (Note that these numbers do not take into account the fact that sometimes your opponent will have Block on a Both Down result, in which case you wouldn't get to roll for armor and injury. This is because it's impossible to estimate what number of block targets would have Block.)

arzack · Post by **arzack** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:07 pm

go for block, it alows you to throw more blocks, without spending so much time laying prone on the ground, hanging around ko'd or badly hurt in the dugout or missing the next game or all following games...

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:58 pm

MB is better for acceleration, but Block gives you a little added peace of mind as well as some acceleration. Block means that if he's your blitz-target, your opponent is limited to a 5/9 shot to KD, as opposed to 75%. That really matters when the guy goes up again and gets Stand Firm.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:37 pm

Also with Mighty Blow he'll quickly become foul target #1. Not a great position to be in.

~Andromidius

Blammaham · Post by **Blammaham** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:59 pm

I have always had a mix of block and MB on my Ork and bashy teams, and I always find that MB player skill up much faster and the Block first guys seem to lag at 6-16 but I think that you really need a mix for the betterment of the team.S.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:42 pm

There is no right answer. In my experience with Sauri, if you go strictly Mighty Blow, you are either accepting both downs or being knocked down by them, and you are likely to lose the requisite numbers against bashier or equally bashy teams... then SPP's are hard to get!

Block by the opposite token means you are getting knocked down less and marginally knocking down players more, but at the cost of breaking armor.

The key (ignoring the need on a Lizardman team for Break Tackle on two players) is to mix and match block, mighty blow, and a bit of guard.

This allows your mighty blow players to skill up faster, your team to hit reliably, and you rarely need to worry about not getting a 2 die block.

For Orc Blockers, I recommend:

1st skill up- Mighty Blow
2nd skill up- Block
3rd Skill up- Mighty Blow
4th skill up- Mighty Blow*
*Depending upon how long it takes for number 4 to skill up and your league, stand firm or guard may be better choices.

For second skills, the block player should get Stand Firm, 2 mighty blow models should get block and the last stand firm.

But orcs are a bit easier, there is little need for break tackle, your team has plenty of block, and your blitzers/troll will likely lend you enough guard for the early going.

Balanced development is the key though, don't sell out exclusively on block or mighty blow!

Tante Kaethe · Post by **Tante Kaethe** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:09 am

@all: Thanks for your replies

!

To me it sounds like giving two of your ST4-Blockers MB first is an option worth considering. And I hear you Jural that Orcs can probably get away best with the added risk as they already have the Blitzers.

Nurgle Warriors and Sauri are indeed in a different situation as the team lacks Block. But still, it can be worthwhile to take MB on two Blocker-typers as first skill AFTER you already have some Block-players on your team. Btw. I'm not too concerned about fouling anymore, esp. when the target has AV9 (and in case of Nurgle warriors Regeneration too).

Thanks again

Tante Käthe

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:39 pm

One crucial factor is longevity of the team. If its a short life span - say a dozen games - then mighty blow isn't that great because it really kicks in getting you to that 3rd & 4th skill quicker. However Block & Guard because they make a bigger difference to the team tend to help you win more.

I'd be tempted to try giving all Saurus mighty blow first for a really long term team, maybe giving the first frenzy to help compensate against the blodgers. However that would be, to my mind a 30+ game proposition.

BOBs I'd give the first two guard. Then either block or guard on the third to skill up and Block on the fourth to skill up. Mighty Blow isn't as important for them IMO as you've got blitzers to do much of the hitting.

Ren_Rew · Post by **Ren_Rew** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:02 am

Since I've always played some basher teams, I know now that ST4 players without block are really a pain in the... well, you know what I mean.

I can't even remember how many times those damned block dice came up with the both down symbol and made my opponent smile...

Duke Jan · Post by **Duke Jan** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:25 am

It depends on your opponents. If you are likely to get mostly 2 dice blocks I would go for the MB option. However, once your opponents start developing guard and block players, the advantage of ST4 quickly diminishes and block becomes a necessity. So starting with mighty blow would work well in a rookie league.

I do agree with Ian that ST4 players are the ideal guard players. A ST3 player with guard and no block tends to have a career with lots op ups and downs and getting back up again only t be knocked down. Knocking over a ST4 player is a lot more daunting to your opponent. On an orc team I'd give MB to the blitzers and guard to the BOBs, but guard is a sure fire way to slowing down a single player's development. So if you want to achieve that: Block and Mighty Blow are the way to go.

stormmaster1 · Post by **stormmaster1** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:14 pm

Also depends on your playstyle. Most players will get the majority of blocks to be 2D. The order of blocks tends to be the most important ones first, then the safest. a player without the block skill, will often be the last to block on a team, and so lose out on some cas spps.

The Ref · Post by **The Ref** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:46 pm

BLOCK

then MB

through experience with all kinds of players, especially thralls. The ones with block first gets 2.nd skill faster, at least in my team..

Quadrasonic · Post by **Quadrasonic** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:53 am

I can't tell you how much I regretted giving one of my Sauri MB first. He fell on his keester almost every other turn. The ones with Block first got MB (or Guard or Break Tackle) within a few games, but it took about 10 games longer to bring the MB first Saurus to 16 spp.